NC_2023_05_28

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Hi, this is Allison Sheridan of the NoSilicast Podcast, hosted at podfeet.com, a technology

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geek podcast with an ever-so-slight Apple bias.

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Today is Sunday, May 28, 2023, and this is show number 942.

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This week's programming by stealth wasn't a heavy lift, but I managed to get confused

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a couple of times anyway, so expect lots of questions from me on this one.

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Bart started the show by telling us about a clever tip from listener Jill of Kent, not

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to be confused with Jill from the Northwoods about how to detect when the terminal is talking

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to and from standard in, standard out, and standard error.

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Then we learn about how to use the printf command to make nicely formatted output.

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I especially like that part because I love me some organized output.

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As always, you can find Bart's fabulous tutorial show notes at pbs.bartifacer.net and you can

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find Programming by Stealth in your podcatcher of choice.

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This week, Chuck Joiner published an interview he did with me for his Road to MacStock series

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on his show MacVoices.

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He's having many of the speakers on to describe what people can learn from the talk they will

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be giving.

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It's supposed to get you excited about MacStock if you've already signed up, and jealous of

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MacStock if you haven't, and to get you to sign up to go.

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It's such a terrific trip, you really should check out MacStock Conference and Expo.

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Anyway, the last time I spoke at MacStock, Chuck had me on for the same reason.

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But as I started talking about my planned presentation, which was just weeks away at

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the time, Chuck pointed out that I didn't sound that excited about my topic.

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He was actually right.

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I was really not thrilled at all about what I had chosen.

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So we noodled a bit and we came up with an idea that I was very excited about.

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I think it was when I decided to talk about mind mapping with iThoughts and I was super

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excited about that topic because you know how I love a mind map.

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Anyway, changing my topic that late really caused havoc for the organizer, Mike Pottern,

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because the programs had already been printed for the show.

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So anyway, this year I decided not to tell Mike what I'm talking about until after I

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talked to Chuck.

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I thought the conversation was great fun, even though Chuck wasn't always keeping up

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with me.

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Anyway, I put a link in the show notes, and you can listen at that link in the show notes,

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Or you can watch the video at MacVoices.com.

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And of course you can find Mac Voices where?

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In your podcatcher of choice.

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Well WWDC is coming up really soon on Monday, June 5th at 10am Pacific Time.

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As is our tradition, Steve and I will be hanging out in the Nocillicast live chat room during

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the keynote so we can chat with the Nocillicastaways.

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We don't broadcast video and we don't impose our audio on anyone.

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It's all just going to be texting and chatting in text.

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it's actually in Discord. Now, if you haven't been to the live show before, the easiest

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way to find it is to just go to podfee.com/live. This will take you to a webpage that has the

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embedded video, which will not be live. I think it'll probably be like the day before

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show, but there's also a window into the Discord channel where we'll be chatting. However,

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if you want to go right to the Discord channel and join it, I put a direct link in the show

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notes to the live chat channel there. Anyway, I hope you'll join us to be amazed, disappointed,

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a laugh or two. And by the way, Bart usually shows up there too, so if you want to chat

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with him about what they're talking about on stage, that's the place to be. See you

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a week from Monday or Monday, June 5th at 10am Pacific time.

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Just to prove to myself that I can write a review that is not 2000 words long, I'm going

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to explain why you might need yet another charger for your devices. Now it's table stakes

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these days that any charger you buy has to be made with gallium nitride or GAN. Compared

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to the older silicon chargers, GaN chargers are lighter, can deliver faster charging,

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and can handle high power without getting hot. So if you're traveling, lower weight

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is the key ingredient in that list, so you might be interested in this.

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When Barry Falk came to visit us a few months ago, he was packing the Anker Gallium Nitride

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Prime 65W Charging Station. This charger sports one USB-A port and two USB-C ports, but it

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also has two AC outlets on it. Since it has to be plugged into an AC outlet to work, that's

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really only a gain of one. But it's still a big advantage because both of the outlets

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on the Anker charging station have room around them so you can plug in your two big power

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supplies. The Anker charging station provides 65 watts of power, so that's enough for charging

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smaller laptops quickly or even power hungry laptops like the 14 and 16 inch MacBook Pros

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if you have a little bit more time. They tend to like 100 watts, but you can totally do it

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with a 65 watt charger. Now, as with all recent Anker power devices, it also has PowerIQ,

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which they say intelligently identifies your device to deliver the fastest possible charge.

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For this charger, Anker claim that you can charge a 14-inch MacBook Pro to 50% in just 37 minutes.

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So maybe you don't need as much time as I thought. The form factor of the Anker charging station is

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unique. It's an elongated oval with one of the AC outlets on one side and the

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rest of the ports on the opposite side. The charger has a built-in 3-foot power

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cable and it wraps around the charger for storage and travel. There's a

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flexible rubber kind of skirt that goes around the oval to cover most of the

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wrapped up cable. With it neatly wrapped away, you still have around 5 inches of

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the cable with the plug on the end. Now again, with that 5 inches of cable, that

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means you have those two outlets accessible way out from under from

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behind a bed or behind a TV where you finally found a place to plug in your charger.

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The charger comes in dark gray or white and it costs $70 US at Anker.com or on Amazon.

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As soon as we saw berries, Steve and I each bought an Anker Gan Prime 65-watt charging

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station for our travel bags.

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Boom!

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Did you hear that?

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379 words and I spent your money again.

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Very good friend of the show and friend of Steve and mine, Frank Petrie, wrote an op-ed

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recently on his blog YMP Now, where he suggests a different announcement from WWDC than anyone

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else is predicting.

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He had hoped to record it himself, but he's a bit under the weather and some things have

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gotten in the way, so he asked me if I would read it instead.

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I can't hold a candle to Frank in imitating his style of delivery, as you well know, but

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I'm happy to bring this message to you as best I can.

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Here's the op-ed from Frank.

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Everyone is making a case for "one more thing" - Mac Glasses, Mac Pro, what have you.

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As I look at rumors for "one more thing" and Apple Press releases, they all seem to

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be pointing at one missing piece of the puzzle that I think will either be announced or debuted

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at WWDC 2023.

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Let's look at the timeline.

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M1 and M2 iPads are released in the spring and fall of 2022.

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Everyone agrees that these raise the level that you can perform video editing, rendering

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3D modeling and other heavy lifting that you may have a need to do.

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Now we need software.

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But the more we cry for software, the more resolutely they seem to dismiss the problem.

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And even worse, Apple appears to be leaning strongly into DaVinci Resolve for the last

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several events.

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Mumbling and grumbling begins that Apple may not be willing to tackle coding FCP or Final

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Cut Pro for the beastly Silicon tablets.

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Then in May, Apple, with a mere press release, announces the unheralded release of Final

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Cup Pro and Logic exclusively for iPad M series. Huzzah! Let the birds sing and the babies cry!

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Next, iJustine, fellow YouTube personalities, and select members of the press get a limited time

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with the preview in the hopes that they will go back and scream from the mountaintops.

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If you've watched any of the YouTube reviews, they were all very impressed with Apple's work.

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With the exception of a few missing pieces, they were all rightfully impressed.

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Apple announces it will be available for a subscription price on May 23, worldwide.

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However, they all uniformly said they would try it but most likely not use it as their primary

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editor of choice. The reason? Most of them perform their editing off of external drives

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in order to save space on the internal drive, and there's only one USB 3 port on the iPad.

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That's when I remembered a little rumor from several months back that everyone was laughing

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at. But I propose this leads us to our one more thing. WWDC 2023 releases the rumored 16-inch

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iPad Ultra. A 16-inch Liquid Retina display with ProMotion, True Tone, and P3 wide color screen.

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Two, possibly three USB-C ports, Thunderbolt 4 optional, powered by an M3 chip and a 2TB

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to 8TB SSD drive. Will it come with everything I want? Of course not. Will it cost an arm and a leg?

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Yes, of course. Probably several internal organs as well. But think of it, Apple started by putting

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M-series chips in the revered tablet. Then they announced the release of Final Cut Pro and Logic

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for iPad's upper echelon devices. You now have everybody's undivided attention, and they're

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They're drooling and grasping for their wallets with sweaty palms.

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A demographic ripe for the picking.

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I think we've been played.

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Like a violin.

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Thanks for sending that in, Frank.

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That one really made me think.

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I hope you're right.

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That would be so fun.

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Back in 2015, I wrote an article entitled "Making Happy Audio" in which I walked through

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the different technologies that I was using to create listenable podcasts.

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In that article, I sang the virtue of a free, cross-platform tool called the Levelator that

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will level the audio of an uncompressed recording.

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It was a marvelous tool because it created audio files that wouldn't require the listener

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to turn the volumes constantly up and down as one speaker was quiet and the next loud.

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The Levelator went into maintenance mode in 2010 and I abandoned it.

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In 2020, though, I wrote an article entitled "The Levelator is Back!" announcing that

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it had risen like a phoenix from the ashes and was even in the Mac App Store.

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Shortly after that, I had Doug Kay, the founder of the Conversations Network, on Chit Chat

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Across the Pond #646, where he talked about how the Levelator had been created originally

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and what brought it back.

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I went searching for the Levelator a few weeks ago, and it appears to have been "removed"

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from the internet.

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And I mean removed.

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While you can find the binaries and source code for the Levelator in the internet archives,

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The publication date is 2005, with the latest update in 2013, which is a decade ago.

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You have to really want to use this code to go down that path.

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Now, it's sad that this free tool is essentially gone, but I want to talk to you about what

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I use instead.

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I've mentioned the web service Auphonic a zillion times on the show, and I actually

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told you about the desktop app in that 2015 article about making happy audio.

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Now, I don't use the desktop app any longer because of the power of Auphonic's web-based

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tool.

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I look back through the 18 years of blog posts I've done, and I couldn't find an article

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where I actually explained Auphonic in its new form, how to use it, and why I have it

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set up the way I do.

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I decided it's high time I rectified that situation.

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Even if you don't ever want to or need to do any audio processing of your own, I think

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it'll be interesting to learn a little bit about what goes on in the background of producing

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the podcast.

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So let's start with what Auphonic actually does.

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Auphonic automates a ton of different processes for me, including sweetening my audio, compressing

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the files, sending them where they need to go, creating transcripts, and more.

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All of this is automated through nice little templates, so it's literally a push of a button

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for me to produce the show.

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This automation makes everything go smoothly every week without hiccups.

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Well, as long as I hand it the correct file and I haven't made any boo-boos in the recording.

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For example, two weeks ago, I had the intro music way too loud.

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And even though I noticed it while recording and I brought it up to the live audience,

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I for some reason didn't put it together that its loudness was going to come through on

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the final recording.

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I actually turned down my headphones so it wouldn't be so loud for me.

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But I should have thought, "Wait a minute, why is it too loud for me?"

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Anyway, I passed that file with the audio way too loud up to aphonic and it did its

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It's best to try to fix it, but it can't perform miracles.

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Luckily, I always do a test listen after Auphonic is done, and I caught my mistake and so you

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never had to actually hear it.

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Now if you have really modest needs, you can use Auphonic for free for 2 hours per month.

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Obviously I talk way too much to fit into the free plan.

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If you need more than 2 hours, you can pay monthly for recurring credits or you can even

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buy one-time credits.

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It starts at $11 US for 9 hours per month and goes up to 100 hours per month for $99.

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I used to only run the NoSilicast Raw Phonic, but last year I got tired of doing all the

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work by hand for programming by stealth and chit chat across the pond light and now they

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all get the kid glove treatment as well.

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I can fit into the lowest plan with a little few extra credits here and there to supplement.

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It's an interesting business model that makes a lot of sense as the service has continued

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to get better and better with more features, the developer, George Holtzman, has never

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raised the price. I wouldn't be surprised if he has to at some point, but I'm glad it's

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been so stable.

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The primary function of Auphonic provides is intelligent leveling of the audio you hear.

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While much of the Nocellic cast is recorded by just little old me in front of a mic in

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one sitting like right now, when Bart and I record security bits, the levels will be

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far different from my solo recordings. We do work to get our levels close to each other,

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But the absolute level won't be the same as me alone.

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And of course we have our wonderful contributors, whose recordings will also be different from

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mine.

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Aphonix Adaptive Leveler corrects the differences between speakers and it can even tell the

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difference between speech and music to level appropriately.

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The other tricky bit that makes the leveling in Aphonix intelligent is that it doesn't

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just make everything louder.

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That would amplify background noise.

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You can even tailor what's considered noise in your recordings.

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While Auphonic's adaptive leveler is much more advanced than the levelator ever was,

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the other primary function Auphonic provides for my shows is achieving consistent and specific

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loudness.

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It turns out there's actually a specification for loudness in podcasting, and if everyone

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adhered to it, you would never need to change the volume when you jump between podcasts.

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Paul Figiani taught me about loudness a hundred years ago when it was a lot harder to meet

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the standard.

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But now with Auphonic, you can just set it up once in your template and you know it will

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always be right.

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Now, a few years ago, I asked the audience if you really wanted chapters in the podcast

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and I hoped you'd say no, but it was a resounding yes please from basically everybody.

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I create the chapter marks inside my recording software, Hindenburg, but you can also create

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them inside the Auphonic interface.

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Auphonic takes my lossless M4A file, which is pretty big, and it encodes it as an MP3

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for the podcast. It adds all of the metadata for me, like the image you see in your podcatcher,

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the year it was made, and who made it. Then it uses secure FTP to send it along to Libsyn,

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which is where I serve out all of the audio files for the show.

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Now, I haven't ever announced this before, but did you know that you can get all of the

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Podfeed podcasts on YouTube now? And you have Afonik to thank for that. When Jill from the

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Northwoods started podcasting, I turned her on to Afonik, and then now she has taught

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me how to do a lot of stuff in Auphonic, and one of those things was how to have it create

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videos. These are not the most interesting YouTube videos you'll ever see. They're just

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the logo with a waveform bouncing around while you listen. Evidently, a fair number of people

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just play YouTube in the background anyway, so if you're one of those people, you have

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yet another way to listen to the Podfeed podcast.

00:16:08.860 --> 00:16:13.500
Last year, right before everything on earth got AI in it, George started letting us create

00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:18.940
transcripts in Auphonic using the Whisper model by OpenAI to accomplish this feat.

00:16:18.940 --> 00:16:22.780
And that's how we have transcripts of all of the Podfeet podcasts.

00:16:22.780 --> 00:16:25.820
Guess what? He didn't even charge extra for this new feature!

00:16:25.820 --> 00:16:30.940
I hadn't thought about it before, but in his documentation about the transcripts feature,

00:16:30.940 --> 00:16:35.260
he points out that having a full transcript means the podcast is searchable.

00:16:35.260 --> 00:16:41.900
I feed a mono M4A file to Auphonic, which means I don't take advantage of one feature of the tool,

00:16:41.900 --> 00:16:47.020
and that's its ability to apply its talents to multi-track recordings. It can level different

00:16:47.020 --> 00:16:51.660
speakers separately and even apply noise gates differently to the separate channels.

00:16:51.660 --> 00:16:57.420
It can remove crosstalk between microphones and remove room reverb. That would be a great option

00:16:57.420 --> 00:17:02.220
if you record in a public, less controlled setting than I have. The bottom line is,

00:17:02.220 --> 00:17:07.420
I don't have to think about Auphonic much because it's simply an automation setup now.

00:17:07.420 --> 00:17:13.340
that's probably the biggest compliment I can give it. When I tweeted out this article, I found out

00:17:13.340 --> 00:17:18.300
from Michael Deweese that Auphonic has another feature I don't even know about, another way to

00:17:18.300 --> 00:17:24.060
make this even more automatic. You can put your audio file into a cloud service like Google Drive

00:17:24.060 --> 00:17:30.140
or Dropbox or OneDrive and have Auphonic watch that folder and automatically run all of the

00:17:30.140 --> 00:17:35.900
automations of your preset on that file without you even having to tell it. So there's more

00:17:35.900 --> 00:17:39.500
automation I could do with this than I even know.

00:17:39.500 --> 00:17:43.800
So back to the automation thing and how I don't even have to think about it.

00:17:43.800 --> 00:17:48.480
As soon as I hit the button on my stream deck to launch my "show's over" automation,

00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:52.900
my web browser opens to Auphonic.com, I choose which show I've just recorded to get to

00:17:52.900 --> 00:17:57.440
the right preset, I upload my file, and in a few minutes, everything is ready for me

00:17:57.440 --> 00:17:59.440
to produce the podcast.

00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:03.680
The next time you're appreciating the audio quality of any of my shows and how quickly

00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:08.440
the show comes out, you should thank George Holtzman of Auphonic.

00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:13.400
So many people keep this show going through so many different ways. Whether you contribute

00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:18.280
by coming to the live show, or writing articles and making recordings for the audience, or

00:18:18.280 --> 00:18:23.340
whether you just post fun things in our Slack, all of these people keep the community lively

00:18:23.340 --> 00:18:29.120
and fun for everyone. I also really appreciate the folks who keep the show going financially,

00:18:29.120 --> 00:18:33.080
because it does cost a fair bit of money to make this show work. If you can support the

00:18:33.080 --> 00:18:49.480
work by going to podfeet.com/patreon or podfeet.com/paypal, I'd really appreciate it.

00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:50.680
Well it's that time of the week again.

00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:52.960
It's time for Security Bits with Bart Bouchat.

00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:56.440
How grim is the world this week, Bart?

00:18:56.440 --> 00:19:00.640
If it's being grim, it's doing so quietly.

00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:01.640
That's good.

00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:02.960
But it's not empty show notes this week.

00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:04.640
we have a little more to chew on.

00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:05.560
- It's not empty, no.

00:19:05.560 --> 00:19:06.880
I mean, there is still stuff happening,

00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:09.160
but the world isn't on fire or anything.

00:19:09.160 --> 00:19:11.840
And it's, yeah, I think I said to you it was a light lift

00:19:11.840 --> 00:19:14.320
and we have a security medium to keep us entertained.

00:19:14.320 --> 00:19:17.520
So the first thing we actually have is some follow-up news

00:19:17.520 --> 00:19:19.040
on some longer running stories.

00:19:19.040 --> 00:19:21.440
Now, the first of these is definitely not

00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:23.000
in the happy, happy, joy, joy category,

00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:26.040
but I guess the good news is it happened in 2002,

00:19:26.040 --> 00:19:28.720
sorry, 2020 to 2022.

00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:31.160
So it's not that something new has happened.

00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:35.080
It's that we now know more detail about stuff we knew was going on anyway.

00:19:35.080 --> 00:19:41.800
So the NSO groups Pegasus app was used with zero day exploits to successfully

00:19:41.800 --> 00:19:46.560
take over people's iPhones in that sort of time period, 2020 to 2022.

00:19:46.560 --> 00:19:50.120
And we knew that, but now we have a little more color.

00:19:50.120 --> 00:19:52.880
Oh, I'm starting to sound like an analyst on a sales call.

00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:55.000
We have some color to give on these quarters numbers.

00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:57.800
Um, well, you can be a football analyst.

00:19:57.800 --> 00:19:59.680
Oh, they have color commentary.

00:20:00.120 --> 00:20:01.960
And that's where that came from, I thought.

00:20:01.960 --> 00:20:04.160
I don't do sports ball.

00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:09.800
So we now know that it was actively used during a war.

00:20:09.800 --> 00:20:14.840
So it's being described as a weapon of war because I don't know how much it made

00:20:14.840 --> 00:20:20.800
the news over over in America, but there was a substantial military engagement in

00:20:20.800 --> 00:20:24.600
a place called Nagorno Karabakh, which is in Azerbaijan.

00:20:24.600 --> 00:20:25.920
But

00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:28.720
it's an exclave that's sort of Albanian.

00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:31.840
And the Russians support one side and not the other.

00:20:31.840 --> 00:20:35.040
And so before the Russians invaded

00:20:35.040 --> 00:20:36.920
I can't.

00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:39.240
Why is my brain just gone blank?

00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:41.120
Your brain.

00:20:41.120 --> 00:20:41.760
Thank you.

00:20:41.760 --> 00:20:44.720
Jeez, I hate when that happens.

00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:48.920
The Russians big military thing was actually Nagorno Karabakh.

00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:50.480
And the.

00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:52.360
Nagorno Karabakh, this place, that was

00:20:52.360 --> 00:20:56.320
where Russia was being the most militarily worrisome.

00:20:56.520 --> 00:20:58.920
But, you know, it's no Ukraine.

00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:00.280
Right.

00:21:00.280 --> 00:21:03.920
But the foreign minister of Armenia had

00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:08.440
their phone hacked by Pegasus 27 times during that war.

00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:09.840
Wow.

00:21:09.840 --> 00:21:11.440
The foreign minister's phone.

00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:13.480
Geez. The foreign minister.

00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:18.880
So my sort of thinking is, you know, the way these things can survive a reboot.

00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:20.960
So the advice to a lot of important people

00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:24.280
is reboot your phone often because it will shove out any malware.

00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:29.040
So I imagine that she was being very proactive here and she actually made a

00:21:29.040 --> 00:21:31.560
point of saying, I went out of my way to be fully up to date and stuff.

00:21:31.560 --> 00:21:34.920
So she was obviously rebooting her phone to keep it clean and getting

00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:37.320
reinfected and reinfected and reinfected.

00:21:37.320 --> 00:21:39.560
So yay.

00:21:39.560 --> 00:21:43.200
Anyway, so that's a Pegasus update you may or may not have heard of.

00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:48.680
Another story we talked about a lot over the years is Apple suing a company called

00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:51.560
Corellium, who are the good kind of cybersecurity company.

00:21:51.560 --> 00:21:54.560
So not the NSO group style, not the grey hat type.

00:21:54.560 --> 00:22:01.520
And Corellium sold a virtualized version of iOS for security researchers to hack on

00:22:01.520 --> 00:22:04.600
so that they could test their exploits and stuff against a virtual iPhone.

00:22:04.600 --> 00:22:10.400
And Apple tried to use copyright law to lock down this security tool.

00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:13.480
It's the case is still not fully resolved.

00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:16.080
There's still some trademark issues, which the appeals court

00:22:16.080 --> 00:22:18.640
have sent back to the lower court to say, have another go.

00:22:19.040 --> 00:22:24.760
But what the higher appeals court did resolve is that security research is fair

00:22:24.760 --> 00:22:28.560
use in terms of copyright. Oh, interesting.

00:22:28.560 --> 00:22:31.120
So one of Apple's claims has been nipped in the bud.

00:22:31.120 --> 00:22:33.360
And I think that's a bigger deal.

00:22:33.360 --> 00:22:35.760
The very concept that cybersecurity

00:22:35.760 --> 00:22:41.080
research is fair use under copyright seems important to me.

00:22:41.080 --> 00:22:45.320
Did I remember, though, that they were selling that tool?

00:22:45.320 --> 00:22:46.360
They wanted to sell it.

00:22:46.560 --> 00:22:49.560
if they start selling it, that's different, right?

00:22:49.560 --> 00:22:53.400
If they sell it to people using it for some other reason other than security

00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:56.920
research, what I don't believe they were selling it for other reasons.

00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:01.440
Apple's basic claim was it is impossible for you to

00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:04.880
virtualize our devices without breaking our copyright.

00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:06.160
Therefore, I understand.

00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:07.560
I understand that argument.

00:23:07.560 --> 00:23:09.560
I'm not I'm not debating that.

00:23:09.560 --> 00:23:11.920
I'm saying because that's what Sorelian was using it for.

00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:14.040
But if they're selling it to other people

00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:20.720
Corellium, if they're selling it to other people for other uses, like how do they

00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:23.440
know what the other people are using it for?

00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:25.840
I need to check into the exact details

00:23:25.840 --> 00:23:28.800
of their product, but I haven't heard any sort of implication that it was being

00:23:28.800 --> 00:23:33.040
used for anything else. I think it was part of a software as a service kind of an

00:23:33.040 --> 00:23:36.400
offering, so I don't think it would be useful for anything else.

00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:41.640
But I haven't directly seen their product, so I don't know how.

00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:43.440
How locked down it is.

00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:43.960
Yeah.

00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:44.560
Okay.

00:23:44.560 --> 00:23:46.040
Yeah.

00:23:46.040 --> 00:23:47.720
Anyway, it's, I liked that.

00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:54.720
And meanwhile, in France, CNIL, which is their national regulator, at the end of

00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:59.600
late last year, they ruled against Clearview AI, who are the company who went

00:23:59.600 --> 00:24:04.320
around scraping social media sites to build facial recognition profiles of

00:24:04.320 --> 00:24:08.560
people, so effectively biometric data, and allowed you to do a reverse search

00:24:08.560 --> 00:24:10.960
where you would upload a photograph and they would then tell you who in the

00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:12.560
real world matches that photograph.

00:24:13.120 --> 00:24:16.760
And the French regulators were quite cranky with that, because as far as

00:24:16.760 --> 00:24:20.440
they're concerned, if you build a biometric profile of someone's face, that

00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:26.240
is personally identifiable information or PII, which falls under the GDPR,

00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:29.360
which means you need informed consent.

00:24:29.360 --> 00:24:32.280
That's an interesting interpretation.

00:24:32.280 --> 00:24:34.680
It's personally identifiable information.

00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:36.080
Yes, I guess so.

00:24:36.080 --> 00:24:38.440
Is your, is your fingerprint PIA?

00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:39.680
It is actually.

00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:44.240
And medical and biometric is actually a special kind of PII on the GDPR.

00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:47.400
It's like, you know, your name and your address is personally identifiable

00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:51.560
information, but your health records are like super sensitive PII.

00:24:51.560 --> 00:24:54.800
So they're actually more protected and your biometrics are also.

00:24:54.800 --> 00:24:56.600
That's a health record.

00:24:56.600 --> 00:24:57.520
Is your finger print?

00:24:57.520 --> 00:25:00.000
Health and sorry, health and biometrics.

00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.280
There's a few classes of data get like super plus plus and biometrics

00:25:04.280 --> 00:25:07.200
is in that super plus plus category.

00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:11.720
So when this is when the United States government did not successfully protect

00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:16.640
the security clearances of millions of people who worked for the government,

00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:20.040
including their fingerprints.

00:25:20.040 --> 00:25:22.280
That would have been covered.

00:25:22.280 --> 00:25:25.400
GDPR would have. Yes, they would have been liable under GDPR.

00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:29.120
Can they can they charge a government?

00:25:29.120 --> 00:25:32.040
And interesting.

00:25:32.040 --> 00:25:33.400
I don't remember the exact details.

00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:35.560
There was a lot of humming and hawing about that.

00:25:35.560 --> 00:25:38.760
They can certainly find them guilty, but I don't believe they can necessarily

00:25:38.760 --> 00:25:40.000
apply the same penalties.

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:40.600
Yeah.

00:25:40.600 --> 00:25:42.040
Yeah.

00:25:42.040 --> 00:25:45.520
But so the French regulators back in October

00:25:45.520 --> 00:25:48.680
were cranky and basically said cease and desist.

00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:51.120
This is this is not legal in France.

00:25:51.120 --> 00:25:54.440
Therefore, you must stop doing this with French citizens and you must delete the

00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:58.520
information you have and you must show us evidence of compliance within two months.

00:25:58.520 --> 00:26:00.680
So that was in October of last year.

00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:04.360
It's been a lot more than two months, but they have now, as of late April,

00:26:04.560 --> 00:26:09.320
issued a formal ruling to say the company has not complied and they have started to

00:26:09.320 --> 00:26:13.040
levy fines, so the initial fine was 20 million euro.

00:26:13.040 --> 00:26:15.560
They have now been fined an additional 5.2

00:26:15.560 --> 00:26:18.680
million euro, and in theory, they have the right to

00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:23.360
fine them 100,000 euros a day until they come into compliance.

00:26:23.360 --> 00:26:24.520
Wow.

00:26:24.520 --> 00:26:29.040
So we shall see how that develops, but they don't appear to be taking it lying down.

00:26:29.040 --> 00:26:30.240
But they don't care.

00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.000
Clearview AI is taking it lying down.

00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:34.840
Apparently so. Yeah, whatever.

00:26:34.840 --> 00:26:36.800
Apparently so, indeed.

00:26:36.800 --> 00:26:39.440
Right. So that jumps us into our deep dive,

00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:43.280
which is a new story that I have certainly seen get a lot of attention,

00:26:43.280 --> 00:26:47.160
which is that we now have some new top level domains that we could go register.

00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:50.320
If we felt like it, we could get like podfeed.zip

00:26:50.320 --> 00:26:53.240
or podfeed.mov if we felt like it.

00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:55.200
MOV? Yes.

00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:57.320
Not M-A-U-V-E?

00:26:57.320 --> 00:27:01.280
Well, I wonder if someone has registered MOV as a top level domain.

00:27:01.280 --> 00:27:02.080
You probably can.

00:27:02.080 --> 00:27:04.120
But the way we pronounce it is differently.

00:27:04.120 --> 00:27:07.840
So I just want to make sure people knew this was about .zip and .mov.

00:27:07.840 --> 00:27:08.340
Indeed.

00:27:08.340 --> 00:27:11.080
So what people may or may not remember--

00:27:11.080 --> 00:27:13.520
because I definitely remember talking to you about it at the time.

00:27:13.520 --> 00:27:15.520
But goodness only knows in what context I've

00:27:15.520 --> 00:27:17.600
been talking so long about so many things.

00:27:17.600 --> 00:27:23.240
But anyway, in 2012, the rules changed from ICANN for top-level domains.

00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:26.280
So it became possible for anyone with a deep enough wallet

00:27:26.280 --> 00:27:28.240
to register any top-level domain they like,

00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:33.560
which is why there exists .google as a top level domain, .microsoft as a top level domain.

00:27:33.560 --> 00:27:39.360
You can get things like .photo and if you go on to your favourite domain registrar,

00:27:39.360 --> 00:27:42.720
there's stupendous amounts of top level domains.

00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:45.840
And that's because anyone can register one and then start selling them.

00:27:45.840 --> 00:27:48.360
And that happened in 2012.

00:27:48.360 --> 00:27:51.720
In 2014, Google bought two such top level

00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:55.560
domains .zip and .mov and they kept them private.

00:27:55.760 --> 00:28:00.400
They basically, they used them very limitedly and they sold, they may have

00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:04.440
sold a few domains, you know, a few sub domains to people, but they didn't open

00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:04.880
them up.

00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:06.920
Well, they have now.

00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:10.520
So you can now go to your favorite domain registrar and you can go

00:28:10.520 --> 00:28:12.480
register yourself at dot zip or dot mov.

00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:17.960
And what has some people in a tizzy about this is that those top level

00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:22.040
domains clash with common file extensions.

00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:26.480
So you can register a domain that looks like a file name.

00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:30.760
So my crypto wallet, that's it or naughty movie dot Marv or whatever.

00:28:30.760 --> 00:28:33.360
And then you can use that as part of social

00:28:33.360 --> 00:28:38.480
engineering to try arrange a situation where you can present information.

00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:43.480
So it looks like you're clicking on a file that's maybe an attachment to the email

00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:46.120
or that's a file on your desktop or something.

00:28:46.120 --> 00:28:50.040
But when you click on it, your computer says, ah, URL, OK,

00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:53.080
And your computer goes off and fetches something from a URL,

00:28:53.080 --> 00:28:56.040
which is probably going to be a Trojan or something.

00:28:56.040 --> 00:29:01.080
So how does your computer know which one is which when you click on it?

00:29:01.080 --> 00:29:02.880
Well, it will be a thing, right?

00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:04.400
So it will be a URL or whatever.

00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:05.560
So imagine it would be, you know,

00:29:05.560 --> 00:29:09.080
the way in an email you can have the link you see as English.

00:29:09.080 --> 00:29:10.520
Sure, sure.

00:29:10.520 --> 00:29:13.280
It might say Microsoft dot com, but when you actually click on it,

00:29:13.280 --> 00:29:16.080
the A H ref is actually evil site dot whatever.

00:29:16.080 --> 00:29:18.560
That's been an age old trick.

00:29:18.560 --> 00:29:19.560
Right, right, right.

00:29:19.760 --> 00:29:24.760
But I'm saying if, let's say there exists a URL podfeet.mov,

00:29:24.760 --> 00:29:32.940
and you email me an attachment called podfeet.mov,

00:29:32.940 --> 00:29:36.120
how does my computer know what to do with it?

00:29:36.120 --> 00:29:39.440
>>Well, so you wouldn't email an attachment.

00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:41.760
>>Well, you absolutely could email me an attachment.

00:29:41.760 --> 00:29:44.160
I'm saying if you email me an attachment.

00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:46.840
I'm not talking about the nefarious thing.

00:29:46.840 --> 00:29:47.680
>>Okay.

00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:48.800
>>I'm just talking about interpretation.

00:29:48.800 --> 00:29:51.160
So I guess my computer would know it's an attachment

00:29:51.160 --> 00:29:52.560
because it's an attachment.

00:29:52.560 --> 00:29:55.080
And if it was merely a link,

00:29:55.080 --> 00:29:56.740
it would know to follow the link.

00:29:56.740 --> 00:29:59.840
- Yes, and it will be up to the client.

00:29:59.840 --> 00:30:02.760
So there will be some social engineering involved,

00:30:02.760 --> 00:30:07.440
but you could write an email in such a way that--

00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:11.720
- I understand the nefarious method.

00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:13.560
I was talking about just general use.

00:30:13.560 --> 00:30:15.280
With nobody being doing anything bad,

00:30:15.280 --> 00:30:16.760
how would my computer interpret it?

00:30:16.760 --> 00:30:18.720
And I kind of answered my own question.

00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:25.200
Yeah, it would definitely, if you write HTTPS colon slash slash, it would definitely know,

00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:32.400
ah, that's a URL. If you don't stick it on, a lot of apps have regular expressions where

00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:38.960
they try to guess, is it a URL? And those guesses are getting more and more useless

00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:43.760
as the amount of top level domains get bigger and bigger and bigger. Because if I write

00:30:43.760 --> 00:30:48.080
something.photo, will your app decide that that's a URL or not?

00:30:48.080 --> 00:30:50.000
Might do.

00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:50.480
Could be.

00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:51.360
Yeah.

00:30:51.360 --> 00:30:52.560
But it's kind of up to the app.

00:30:52.560 --> 00:30:54.880
So that kind of guessing is getting worse.

00:30:54.880 --> 00:30:56.560
Yeah.

00:30:56.560 --> 00:30:59.760
So it is.

00:30:59.760 --> 00:31:03.920
I am sure someone will find a way to do something interesting with this.

00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:07.440
That seems inevitable that someone malicious will do something

00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:09.360
strange and wonderful.

00:31:09.360 --> 00:31:12.960
But it is also true that if you're using,

00:31:13.080 --> 00:31:18.040
say Apple's products, it's going to be very hard to actually get away with this.

00:31:18.040 --> 00:31:23.080
Because on Safari, for example, when you download a file, you get this pop-up,

00:31:23.080 --> 00:31:26.240
which most people hate. You're about to download a file from this domain.

00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:28.000
Do you want to continue?

00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:30.600
Well, that's going to completely nip this kind of chicanery in the bud.

00:31:30.600 --> 00:31:35.800
If you're paying attention and you're thinking about the fact that, wait a minute,

00:31:35.800 --> 00:31:38.440
I thought I was going to a URL, not downloading something.

00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:42.000
Or no, I didn't think I was downloading.

00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:45.360
I thought this was a file, why am I downloading something?

00:31:45.360 --> 00:31:49.040
No, if you think it's a file, it would download it.

00:31:49.040 --> 00:31:51.560
You'd have to think it was a URL.

00:31:51.560 --> 00:31:54.000
No, no, no, the trick is to make you download a URL

00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:54.840
without realizing it.

00:31:54.840 --> 00:31:57.960
So to convince you that it's not a URL,

00:31:57.960 --> 00:31:59.760
but to make it be a URL, that's the trick.

00:31:59.760 --> 00:32:01.720
Otherwise it's just downloading from a URL.

00:32:01.720 --> 00:32:04.080
You don't download a URL.

00:32:04.080 --> 00:32:06.360
So that didn't make any sense.

00:32:06.360 --> 00:32:10.920
You'd give me a URL that when I click it, downloads a file.

00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:13.200
Right. Yes, that that would be the malicious.

00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:15.800
But the idea is that I would send you an email that you did not think was going

00:32:15.800 --> 00:32:17.200
to download anything from the Internet.

00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:18.360
You did not write the Internet.

00:32:18.360 --> 00:32:20.040
You thought it was I thought it was a URL.

00:32:20.040 --> 00:32:23.240
No, you thought it was a file.

00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:27.240
You didn't think it was you or you thought it was a file that was your file on your

00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:31.800
computer or a file in the attachment that you thought was not the Internet.

00:32:31.800 --> 00:32:36.320
Only I'm going to trick your computer into getting it from the Internet, my

00:32:36.320 --> 00:32:37.240
malicious website.

00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:39.800
That is the chicanery.

00:32:39.800 --> 00:32:48.880
What's the difference between emailing me a file and sending me a URL that downloads

00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:53.980
a file? Those are both the same amount of equal maliciousness, no?

00:32:53.980 --> 00:32:58.520
Not necessarily. Depending on how the social engineering is arranged, tricking you into

00:32:58.520 --> 00:33:04.080
thinking that something is, say, a file sitting on the company share versus it being a URL

00:33:04.080 --> 00:33:08.280
you're downloading could potentially be quite different. So you'd have to do some social

00:33:08.280 --> 00:33:13.480
engineering and it would have, it's just, it's another way of adding some fudge.

00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:18.660
So to make, it's a way of getting an expectation not to be true, which you

00:33:18.660 --> 00:33:22.440
can cleverly engineer to try trick a user into downloading when they

00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:23.640
didn't think they were downloading.

00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:25.200
It's all hypothetical.

00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:31.240
Well, I think I see the, uh, so let's say I get this, uh, this thing that

00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:35.600
looks like a zip file I'm going to download from the company internet from,

00:33:35.600 --> 00:33:39.840
from bartsamazingsoftwarecompany.zip,

00:33:39.840 --> 00:33:42.260
and I click it, and it opens a URL

00:33:42.260 --> 00:33:44.620
and then offers to download a file,

00:33:44.620 --> 00:33:46.800
I would still think, oh, I'm downloading that file

00:33:46.800 --> 00:33:48.820
that I was trying to download from the company internet,

00:33:48.820 --> 00:33:51.480
but it was actually getting it from someplace else.

00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:56.120
That's the scenario I think you described.

00:33:56.120 --> 00:33:56.960
- No, it's not.

00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:59.320
The scenario is that I'm going to,

00:33:59.320 --> 00:34:01.600
you are going to not think it's a URL, right?

00:34:01.600 --> 00:34:02.420
That is the whole point.

00:34:02.420 --> 00:34:04.920
You are going to think this is not a URL,

00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:05.760
But it is.

00:34:05.760 --> 00:34:10.640
- So then it should take me to a webpage.

00:34:10.640 --> 00:34:11.480
- Well, no, but it will--

00:34:11.480 --> 00:34:12.300
- And if it's gonna download something,

00:34:12.300 --> 00:34:15.700
then it'll look just like the download I was expecting.

00:34:15.700 --> 00:34:17.560
- Okay, but a URL doesn't have to lead to a webpage.

00:34:17.560 --> 00:34:19.280
A URL can just be a straight file download.

00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:21.000
If I give you the URL to a zip file,

00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:22.200
you're gonna get a zip file.

00:34:22.200 --> 00:34:23.040
If I give you the--

00:34:23.040 --> 00:34:24.280
- I don't think we're ever gonna understand

00:34:24.280 --> 00:34:25.120
each other here, Bart,

00:34:25.120 --> 00:34:27.240
'cause I believe we're saying the exact same thing,

00:34:27.240 --> 00:34:28.680
and you keep saying I'm saying it wrong.

00:34:28.680 --> 00:34:31.080
So I guess we move along,

00:34:31.080 --> 00:34:33.200
'cause I'm hearing you,

00:34:33.200 --> 00:34:35.760
And I hear you saying what I'm saying.

00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:36.960
- And I'm hearing you say the inverse

00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:37.800
of what I'm trying to say,

00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:39.600
and I'm not sure which of us is getting it wrong.

00:34:39.600 --> 00:34:42.520
Anyway, the point is, this allows some--

00:34:42.520 --> 00:34:44.200
- Violently agree. - Fuzziness.

00:34:44.200 --> 00:34:48.000
This allows some ambiguity that didn't exist before.

00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:50.540
- And does a lot of people seem like a big deal?

00:34:50.540 --> 00:34:55.440
- My initial thought was, ooh, this could get interesting.

00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:57.560
But then I did a bit more reading,

00:34:57.560 --> 00:35:00.440
and I sort of, I didn't set my hair on fire

00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:01.280
because I never do that.

00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:04.360
I always get a few more opinions before I make up my mind.

00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:08.560
But my initial reaction was kind of like, hmm, I don't like this.

00:35:08.560 --> 00:35:11.440
But the more I've thought about it and actually the more I've read from more

00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:15.320
intelligent people, the less the less my hair is anywhere near matches.

00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:17.240
So I think Troy Hunt sort of summed it up.

00:35:17.240 --> 00:35:20.160
He's like, well, people are terrible at URLs.

00:35:20.160 --> 00:35:21.800
People have always been terrible at URLs.

00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:25.720
Exactly what chicanery is being used to trick people with URLs doesn't really matter.

00:35:25.720 --> 00:35:27.200
The people who click on URLs are going

00:35:27.200 --> 00:35:29.880
to click on URLs and the people who don't are not going to.

00:35:30.080 --> 00:35:35.640
So I predict this will have no change in the amount of people getting infected

00:35:35.640 --> 00:35:37.360
with bad stuff.

00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:39.800
And he's probably right.

00:35:39.800 --> 00:35:42.480
OK, OK.

00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:47.120
Well, that's so yeah, it's interesting, though, that's for sure.

00:35:47.120 --> 00:35:52.560
Yeah, maybe I kind of like the idea that maybe, you know, if you if you're

00:35:52.560 --> 00:35:56.440
you could have like Dell.zip is where you go to download your various drivers

00:35:56.640 --> 00:35:59.720
I mean, it could be useful top-level domain.

00:35:59.720 --> 00:36:00.720
>>Yeah, yeah.

00:36:00.720 --> 00:36:01.720
And the other--

00:36:01.720 --> 00:36:09.200
>>So don't click on links without knowing what they are and being 100% sure, and maybe

00:36:09.200 --> 00:36:14.400
go to the URL yourself if it's something you can do that for.

00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:18.000
>>Yeah, so what we always say is don't trust stuff in email.

00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:20.160
And so the new answer is don't trust stuff in email.

00:36:20.160 --> 00:36:23.520
So keep doing what you're doing.

00:36:23.520 --> 00:36:25.760
>>Right, right.

00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:30.000
The other thing that's sort of of note, I think, is that this may be very short-lived

00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:36.400
as a kerfuffle, because there's quite a concerted effort in corporate IT to nip this in the

00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:42.880
bud by simply blocking the entire top-level domain on corporate routers.

00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:47.080
Just basically decide that we will block all .zips, therefore there will be no legitimate

00:36:47.080 --> 00:36:51.760
use of the .zip TLD, therefore Google will stop selling it because it won't sell.

00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:52.760
Yeah.

00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:56.920
Now, they've done some interesting things with the URLs, though.

00:36:56.920 --> 00:37:02.600
I'm trying to remember what I heard on a podcast, but I can't remember what those exciting things

00:37:02.600 --> 00:37:03.600
were.

00:37:03.600 --> 00:37:09.360
There was someone who managed to make a not GitHub URL look like a GitHub URL by doing

00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:14.720
some chicanery, which Troy Hunt actually linked to.

00:37:14.720 --> 00:37:20.680
He said, "Read this first, and then read my take from a few years ago on humans and URLs."

00:37:20.680 --> 00:37:25.960
It is a URL that should always look suspicious.

00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:29.680
That looks like a direct download from someone's Git repo, which is not a kind

00:37:29.680 --> 00:37:34.680
of thing I expect human beings to understand, which is actually not a direct

00:37:34.680 --> 00:37:38.280
download from GitHub, but a download from a .zip domain instead.

00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:46.120
Not like I say, I promise you, people will find ways to do fun stuff, but I

00:37:46.120 --> 00:37:48.520
don't think in terms of real world effects.

00:37:50.160 --> 00:37:52.560
And it won't hit the no silica aster ways

00:37:52.560 --> 00:37:54.860
'cause we're all smarter than that now.

00:37:54.860 --> 00:37:57.300
Hopefully.

00:37:57.300 --> 00:37:58.120
I'd like to think so.

00:37:58.120 --> 00:38:00.480
The other interesting thing is that the SANS Institute

00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:02.560
decided to have a wee survey

00:38:02.560 --> 00:38:04.960
to see what the domain is being used for.

00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:07.620
And I don't know what this says about humanity,

00:38:07.620 --> 00:38:10.000
but at the moment, the biggest use of,

00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:12.200
the biggest non-legitimate use

00:38:12.200 --> 00:38:15.680
of the top-level domain .zip is to rickroll people.

00:38:15.680 --> 00:38:18.880
(laughing)

00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:21.880
Anybody who doesn't know what the Rick Roll is, that's where you trick somebody

00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:25.120
into clicking a link that takes you to Rick Astley singing,

00:38:25.120 --> 00:38:27.280
what is it, Never Gonna Give You Up?

00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:29.040
That's the one. That is the one.

00:38:29.040 --> 00:38:32.200
I think Rick Rolling might be the best thing the Internet ever invented.

00:38:32.200 --> 00:38:34.840
I just I love it when I get caught.

00:38:34.840 --> 00:38:36.280
I love it when I catch other people.

00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:37.400
I love everything about it.

00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:39.280
It is the best thing ever.

00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:40.840
Yeah, and it's kind of a nice sort of way

00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:44.760
of saying I could hypothetically have hacked you and here's my proof.

00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:45.760
I'm going to play you this song.

00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:48.760
You know, it's you know, the old thing used to be to make calculator

00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:52.400
.exe pop up on a Windows machine to prove remote code execution.

00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:55.400
I think Rickrolling is more fun.

00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:57.400
Right. Exactly.

00:38:57.400 --> 00:39:01.320
So that brings us to action alerts.

00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:03.440
Apple have released a whole bunch of

00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:05.640
important security updates for basically everything.

00:39:05.640 --> 00:39:08.600
So iOS 16 has gone to point five.

00:39:08.600 --> 00:39:11.360
Ventura has gone to thirteen point four.

00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:13.800
The older versions have been updated.

00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:18.640
So we have a fifteen point seven point six for iOS and we have a Monterey

00:39:18.640 --> 00:39:22.000
and a big Sur update, and we have a Safari 16.5

00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:23.800
for even older OSes.

00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:28.360
So everyone got some love, but the interesting thing

00:39:28.360 --> 00:39:30.320
is that we now know more about our friends,

00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:32.560
the rapid security responses, which had just

00:39:32.560 --> 00:39:34.600
come out when we last spoke.

00:39:34.600 --> 00:39:39.040
So they patched two zero days, and those zero days

00:39:39.040 --> 00:39:41.800
are patched in iOS 16.5.

00:39:41.800 --> 00:39:43.960
So if you didn't do the rapid response,

00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:47.120
but you did do the normal updates, you're now caught up.

00:39:47.120 --> 00:39:49.320
And I think that's sort of what we expected would be the case

00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:50.520
with the rapid responses,

00:39:50.520 --> 00:39:53.820
that they would be temporary sort of a holding position,

00:39:53.820 --> 00:39:56.640
and then they would get wrapped into the next real update

00:39:56.640 --> 00:39:59.520
as a permanent fix, and that is what happened.

00:39:59.520 --> 00:40:04.400
And also the older OSs contained those hot fixes backported.

00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:07.560
So iOS 15.7 contains the same fixes

00:40:07.560 --> 00:40:10.480
as were in those rapid responses.

00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:13.000
And there was a third zero day

00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:15.480
that was not even rapidly responded to.

00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:18.200
So the actual real updates fix three zero days,

00:40:18.200 --> 00:40:20.080
but the rapid response fix two.

00:40:20.080 --> 00:40:21.700
So patchy, patchy, patch, patch.

00:40:21.700 --> 00:40:24.320
- There you go.

00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:27.120
Watch OS 9.5 as well.

00:40:27.120 --> 00:40:28.280
- Oh, I missed one.

00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:30.000
Thank you.

00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:31.800
- Maybe it just wasn't listed in those.

00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:36.000
I just always have to look back at this

00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:40.040
and every single time applaud how well Apple

00:40:40.040 --> 00:40:43.040
keeps older devices and older OSs patched.

00:40:43.040 --> 00:40:46.880
I mean, I was just, I don't know, some country somewhere,

00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:49.260
probably the EU, somebody's yelling at Apple again

00:40:49.260 --> 00:40:51.360
about planned obsolescence

00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:54.700
and that they don't let you replace your battery.

00:40:54.700 --> 00:40:57.560
And it's like, but they keep the phone alive

00:40:57.560 --> 00:41:00.360
for a very, very long time versus anybody else.

00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:02.560
I mean, it's just, it makes me crazy

00:41:02.560 --> 00:41:04.200
when I hear those stories.

00:41:04.200 --> 00:41:05.600
It's just not right.

00:41:05.600 --> 00:41:08.520
- It reminds me of when Greenpeace used to give Apple

00:41:08.520 --> 00:41:10.480
a hard time for not making silly promises,

00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:12.240
but only doing stuff.

00:41:12.240 --> 00:41:15.280
And like Dell would release a press statement promising the sun, moon and the

00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:18.560
stars and Greenpeace would go, yay, whereas Apple have promised nothing.

00:41:18.560 --> 00:41:20.560
But Apple were busy actually doing things.

00:41:20.560 --> 00:41:22.320
And now after about a decade, Greenpeace

00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:27.680
are like, yeah, everyone else didn't do their promises, but Apple actually did stuff.

00:41:27.680 --> 00:41:29.920
They came around in the end, right?

00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:31.320
No, they did. They did come around.

00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:34.160
But I thought it was hilarious that they were praising companies for making empty

00:41:34.160 --> 00:41:36.920
promises and complaining that Apple wasn't making empty promises.

00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:40.360
And I'm thinking that's not how you should judge these things.

00:41:40.560 --> 00:41:44.560
But like you say, they came around.

00:41:44.560 --> 00:41:47.040
Now, unfortunately, moving on to worthy warnings.

00:41:47.040 --> 00:41:48.880
This is not a good news story.

00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:51.360
This may affect quite a few Nostella castaways,

00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:52.900
because I think a lot of our audience

00:41:52.900 --> 00:41:55.320
are early adopters of smart home stuff.

00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:58.240
And I think I have definitely heard our community mention

00:41:58.240 --> 00:42:01.240
the WeMo as smart plugs.

00:42:01.240 --> 00:42:02.080
Oh, goody.

00:42:02.080 --> 00:42:04.920
I have notes that I want to talk about it.

00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:05.880
Aha.

00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:07.480
You do have a diagram.

00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:12.040
So what we know is that there is a nasty vulnerability, which has been nicknamed

00:42:12.040 --> 00:42:16.880
Friendly Name, it is not friendly, it is in version two of the WeMo smart

00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:20.240
plug, and I am led to believe the smart plug is now on version five.

00:42:20.240 --> 00:42:23.400
Ah, Alison is showing me a WeMo.

00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:24.600
You're version two.

00:42:24.600 --> 00:42:27.200
You guys' little holes look like a face.

00:42:27.200 --> 00:42:29.320
Look like a little sad face.

00:42:29.320 --> 00:42:31.040
We have different shape holes here.

00:42:31.040 --> 00:42:33.840
Oh, yeah, I guess it is a little sad.

00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:36.360
And Belkin have said, ah, yeah, no, that's obsolete.

00:42:36.560 --> 00:42:38.400
So there is no patch coming.

00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:45.040
So if you have a version 2 of these Wemo switches, I would be applying it to the bin, if it were

00:42:45.040 --> 00:42:46.040
me.

00:42:46.040 --> 00:42:47.040
Oh!

00:42:47.040 --> 00:42:48.040
So I'm holding up for Bart.

00:42:48.040 --> 00:42:49.120
I have a Wemo...

00:42:49.120 --> 00:42:50.500
Now here's the real problem.

00:42:50.500 --> 00:42:59.600
This is a Wemo Mini, and it is a part number F7C063, and for the life of me, I do not know

00:42:59.600 --> 00:43:01.640
if this is version 2.

00:43:01.640 --> 00:43:05.560
It looks like version 2, but the newest ones they have are little bitty things, or Wemo

00:43:05.560 --> 00:43:10.280
plug minis or something, the little tiny things. This one's pretty wide, has a button on the front.

00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:15.240
I can't even get Belkin to tell me which one I have. They said I have to call support.

00:43:15.240 --> 00:43:17.080
Oh, for God's sake.

00:43:17.080 --> 00:43:21.080
I'll give you the part numbers. What one is this? Here's my serial number. What is it? But they

00:43:21.080 --> 00:43:28.360
wouldn't... I just tried to talk to somebody today. But anyway, I don't... Actually, I'm not angry at

00:43:28.360 --> 00:43:33.160
Wemo for not supporting this plug and doing an update to it because it is pretty old.

00:43:33.160 --> 00:43:33.720
Okay.

00:43:33.720 --> 00:43:35.820
I don't know, four or five years old maybe.

00:43:35.820 --> 00:43:37.700
I'm not really sure how old it is,

00:43:37.700 --> 00:43:42.100
but they have given me phenomenal support

00:43:42.100 --> 00:43:44.980
on super old plugs, way out of support.

00:43:44.980 --> 00:43:47.640
They spent two and a half hours trying to help me fix

00:43:47.640 --> 00:43:50.460
this one plug that they had that we have on our water heater

00:43:50.460 --> 00:43:52.580
and eventually we figured out on our own

00:43:52.580 --> 00:43:55.580
that it was the 2.4 gigahertz problem.

00:43:55.580 --> 00:43:58.060
So we fixed it separately from them

00:43:58.060 --> 00:43:59.140
and when I called back, they said,

00:43:59.140 --> 00:44:00.660
"Oh my God, this is great information.

00:44:00.660 --> 00:44:01.780
"Okay, exactly what did you do?"

00:44:01.780 --> 00:44:04.420
and they like took notes so they could be sure to help the next person.

00:44:04.420 --> 00:44:06.180
I love this guy.

00:44:06.180 --> 00:44:08.180
Belkin, Wemo, I think they're great.

00:44:08.180 --> 00:44:11.760
However, I did a little bit of pricing and searching here.

00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:16.080
The Wemo Mini V2, which is I'm sorry, that's the one that's not good.

00:44:16.080 --> 00:44:19.720
The the new Wemo with thread

00:44:19.720 --> 00:44:23.920
is out and it's 30 bucks and it's got thread.

00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:25.220
Yay. That's great.

00:44:25.220 --> 00:44:27.660
But it will never get matter.

00:44:29.020 --> 00:44:32.740
So I don't know that it's worth investing in that if it's not going to get matter,

00:44:32.740 --> 00:44:35.580
if it got thread, but it didn't get matter. So that doesn't make sense.

00:44:35.580 --> 00:44:39.460
So one of those is $30 instead. Uh,

00:44:39.460 --> 00:44:41.140
I don't know if you remember, but, uh,

00:44:41.140 --> 00:44:45.100
Steven gets did a review a long time ago about a company called Maros and we

00:44:45.100 --> 00:44:49.940
have started buying their plugs. I got four, uh, Maros plugs, smart plugs,

00:44:49.940 --> 00:44:54.460
no thread, no matter for $35. So for these for $35,

00:44:54.460 --> 00:44:57.460
one of those for 30, okay, it's got thread,

00:44:57.580 --> 00:45:00.220
But the one with thread is HomeKit only.

00:45:00.220 --> 00:45:04.980
It doesn't do Alexa or Google, but the Maros ones do all three.

00:45:04.980 --> 00:45:06.700
If you buy the right one, they do all three.

00:45:06.700 --> 00:45:08.820
They have them that don't do HomeKit.

00:45:08.820 --> 00:45:11.180
But no matter what, you always get Alexa and Google.

00:45:11.180 --> 00:45:12.860
So you got to watch for the HomeKit sticker.

00:45:12.860 --> 00:45:15.940
But $35 for four or 30 for one.

00:45:15.940 --> 00:45:20.900
I bought four and I am going to be binning today are Wemo plugs.

00:45:20.900 --> 00:45:23.540
I'm trying to decide whether I should give them away.

00:45:24.620 --> 00:45:26.260
be, would that seem to give them away?

00:45:26.260 --> 00:45:28.860
That seems a bit like here, have a security vulnerability.

00:45:28.860 --> 00:45:30.900
Are you gifting someone?

00:45:30.900 --> 00:45:32.700
Do you like the person?

00:45:32.700 --> 00:45:34.340
Yes, I do.

00:45:34.340 --> 00:45:35.060
Well, then no.

00:45:35.060 --> 00:45:36.260
Throw them in the bin.

00:45:36.260 --> 00:45:39.740
Yes. Or responsibly recycle, I believe is the correct phrase.

00:45:39.740 --> 00:45:42.940
Whatever the appropriate thing to do with electronics in your neck of the woods.

00:45:42.940 --> 00:45:46.700
Yeah, so I could put links in the show notes to the two options that I looked at

00:45:46.700 --> 00:45:49.540
so you can look at them yourself, but thirty five bucks for four.

00:45:49.540 --> 00:45:53.660
And actually there's a coupon if I bought it today on Amazon for three bucks.

00:45:53.860 --> 00:45:56.300
like 30, 32. Yeah.

00:45:56.300 --> 00:45:59.020
So I'm going to I'm going to give a thumbs up to the mirrors as well,

00:45:59.020 --> 00:46:03.380
because there are a whopping three smart home devices in my house,

00:46:03.380 --> 00:46:05.540
and all three of them are mirrors plugs.

00:46:05.540 --> 00:46:08.180
There's a four way strip with two USB ports.

00:46:08.180 --> 00:46:10.020
So that's like six plugs.

00:46:10.020 --> 00:46:12.100
And there's two little one plug.

00:46:12.100 --> 00:46:13.900
And OK, I'm

00:46:13.900 --> 00:46:17.700
mostly they're set up for my Christmas lights, which is fun.

00:46:17.700 --> 00:46:20.420
But the other thing they do, this is a really cool trick.

00:46:20.420 --> 00:46:23.780
So you know, the way the Apple TV can sometimes get itself into a mess

00:46:23.780 --> 00:46:25.020
and there's no power button.

00:46:25.020 --> 00:46:27.020
And when you try to plug out the power at the back,

00:46:27.020 --> 00:46:29.220
it'll jump out and you'll scuff your knuckles off

00:46:29.220 --> 00:46:30.340
whatever's behind your television

00:46:30.340 --> 00:46:31.900
and you'll do a lot of swearing.

00:46:31.900 --> 00:46:34.260
I have my smart plug on my Apple TV

00:46:34.260 --> 00:46:36.660
and I have a shortcut saying Apple TV stupid

00:46:36.660 --> 00:46:38.700
and it reboots itself.

00:46:38.700 --> 00:46:41.980
- That is such a sad statement about the Apple TV.

00:46:41.980 --> 00:46:43.500
I don't have that problem that often.

00:46:43.500 --> 00:46:45.300
One of mine was doing that a lot,

00:46:45.300 --> 00:46:47.980
but it hasn't done that lately, but I do like it.

00:46:47.980 --> 00:46:50.100
In, I remember when we first talked about

00:46:50.100 --> 00:46:52.060
your Christmas lights with the Ameros,

00:46:52.060 --> 00:46:57.740
I know you've got a Baham bug to turn off your Christmas lights and ho ho ho I think it is to turn them on

00:46:57.740 --> 00:46:58.740
Jingle bells

00:46:58.740 --> 00:47:04.880
Jingle bells. I hope this doesn't help anybody break into my house, but my garage door is now open sesame

00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:06.880
(laughter)

00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:13.500
And all I had to do was was name it sesame because it wants to open my garage door

00:47:13.500 --> 00:47:18.880
So all I say open sesame even from my watch and I can open it as I'm walking up to my house to go get

00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:21.200
My leaf blower or whatever I need in the garage when I walk up

00:47:21.560 --> 00:47:27.680
Yeah, so I named a shortcut Jingle Bells, and then I just say the name of the shortcut,

00:47:27.680 --> 00:47:30.400
and the shortcut is turn on the Christmas lights.

00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:31.400
Yeah.

00:47:31.400 --> 00:47:32.400
So that's how I did it.

00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:33.400
I like that.

00:47:33.400 --> 00:47:36.840
And I can say Home Bug, and again, it's a shortcut named Home Bug, so I don't have to

00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:39.360
say like, you know, turn on Home Bug or anything, I just say Home Bug.

00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:40.920
Why did you make a shortcut?

00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:48.800
Why not just a Home Cut scene?

00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:51.360
I may have made it a scene and then told Siri

00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:54.080
to give it a shortcut with me saying humbo,

00:47:54.080 --> 00:47:56.920
but it may be both.

00:47:56.920 --> 00:47:57.520
Yeah.

00:47:57.520 --> 00:47:59.400
Yeah, oh, who knows, right?

00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:02.080
And you'll never be able to find out the answer to that question.

00:48:02.080 --> 00:48:04.760
I still, to this day, I do not know how the lights turn on

00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:06.400
in my room when I walk in.

00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:06.960
What they do?

00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:08.960
I've got a Hue motion sensor.

00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:10.240
I got two Hue lights.

00:48:10.240 --> 00:48:13.540
There's no automations in my Hue app.

00:48:13.540 --> 00:48:16.860
And there's nothing in HomeKit that talks to them.

00:48:16.860 --> 00:48:17.560
I have no idea.

00:48:17.560 --> 00:48:18.660
It used to.

00:48:18.660 --> 00:48:22.140
used to be in there in the Hue app, but it's not there anymore.

00:48:22.140 --> 00:48:25.540
So I don't know. So it works really well.

00:48:25.540 --> 00:48:29.500
So in the firmware of those devices, they're still being told to do something.

00:48:29.500 --> 00:48:33.460
But the actual brains of the operation doesn't know it's given that order.

00:48:33.460 --> 00:48:34.700
They left the building.

00:48:34.700 --> 00:48:39.700
Yeah, I heard there was a change to the Hue app that they took a lot of that out.

00:48:39.700 --> 00:48:40.940
But I don't know.

00:48:40.940 --> 00:48:43.380
It just it works really well.

00:48:43.380 --> 00:48:47.700
Maybe the UI is gone, but the actual underlying config is still in there.

00:48:47.900 --> 00:48:53.060
Yeah, there's a there's a JSON file in there somewhere just doing its little job.

00:48:53.060 --> 00:48:54.620
That's exactly what I was thinking.

00:48:54.620 --> 00:48:56.620
A little JSON or a PLIST file or something.

00:48:56.620 --> 00:48:57.260
Yeah. Yeah.

00:48:57.260 --> 00:48:59.260
There's no UI to it anymore, but you still have the file.

00:48:59.260 --> 00:49:00.620
Yeah. Right.

00:49:00.620 --> 00:49:02.620
I never wanted to do something else.

00:49:02.620 --> 00:49:04.100
Yeah.

00:49:04.100 --> 00:49:06.180
I guess a firmware reset or something

00:49:06.180 --> 00:49:08.740
would wipe it out if you want to stop turning on the light.

00:49:08.740 --> 00:49:10.940
That's the other thing. You don't have an automation you can't kill.

00:49:10.940 --> 00:49:12.540
It's a zombie.

00:49:12.540 --> 00:49:17.340
That's right. Well, if no, but if I leave the room, it turns off.

00:49:17.540 --> 00:49:23.860
Okay, so anyway. Okay, so that is our worthy warning, just the one. Notable news then.

00:49:23.860 --> 00:49:29.380
Apple have released their 2022 App Store Transparency Report. So if you're curious

00:49:29.380 --> 00:49:32.660
about how many apps they delete and all that kind of stuff, it's all in there,

00:49:32.660 --> 00:49:37.380
including how many law enforcement responses. But I thought it was noteworthy that what Apple

00:49:37.380 --> 00:49:43.060
chose to push in their press release was that they prevented $2 billion of fraud

00:49:43.940 --> 00:49:48.020
and that they blocked 1.7 million bogus apps.

00:49:48.020 --> 00:49:50.420
Because this is clearly part of their campaign

00:49:50.420 --> 00:49:52.660
not to have regulation forced on the app stores.

00:49:52.660 --> 00:49:58.660
Yeah. I heard people mocking this.

00:49:58.660 --> 00:50:06.580
That's still, I think that's pretty phenomenal to think of the volume of work.

00:50:06.580 --> 00:50:09.700
There was, there's also some stats, it's probably in the Apple Insider

00:50:09.700 --> 00:50:13.940
blog posts that you linked to, but of how many fraudulent accounts they blocked.

00:50:13.940 --> 00:50:14.100
Yes.

00:50:14.100 --> 00:50:20.340
I mean, this is an ever present vigilance. I mean, it is phenomenal volume of work going on to,

00:50:20.340 --> 00:50:23.860
or of garbage going on that they have to respond to.

00:50:23.860 --> 00:50:27.060
Yeah, they're basically showing their homework here. They're basically saying,

00:50:27.060 --> 00:50:32.100
look, we've told you we're doing a lot of work. Actually, here, have a look. This is the lot of

00:50:32.100 --> 00:50:38.020
work we're doing. So I think it's wise of them to share their homework like that. So that was

00:50:38.020 --> 00:50:39.740
That was noteworthy.

00:50:39.740 --> 00:50:44.420
Elon decided to pop into my news feed this morning.

00:50:44.420 --> 00:50:49.180
So the EU have had a voluntary code of conduct for social media companies in

00:50:49.180 --> 00:50:54.300
anticipation of the Digital Services Act and pre-Elon Twitter signed up for this

00:50:54.300 --> 00:50:58.780
voluntary code of conduct. I think it was after the 2016 elections

00:50:58.780 --> 00:51:00.420
they signed up, but it doesn't really matter when.

00:51:00.420 --> 00:51:03.020
Pre-Elon Twitter signed up.

00:51:03.020 --> 00:51:06.140
Elon has now said, yeah, we're not doing that anymore.

00:51:06.340 --> 00:51:09.460
And the European Commission has went, that's fine, dear.

00:51:09.460 --> 00:51:11.500
But when the Digital Service Act goes

00:51:11.500 --> 00:51:14.540
into effect, you're doing it again because it's not voluntary anymore.

00:51:14.540 --> 00:51:15.740
It's the law.

00:51:15.740 --> 00:51:19.540
So temporarily, Twitter is not doing

00:51:19.540 --> 00:51:23.220
not doing what Europe want in terms of blocking misinformation.

00:51:23.220 --> 00:51:28.260
But they'll be doing it again or getting sued in 2025.

00:51:28.260 --> 00:51:30.500
Oh, Elon.

00:51:30.500 --> 00:51:31.300
Yep.

00:51:31.300 --> 00:51:33.340
You probably fired all the people who are doing the work.

00:51:33.340 --> 00:51:36.300
So it's probably only just admitting what's been true for the last couple of months.

00:51:36.300 --> 00:51:38.060
I don't think anyone's doing it.

00:51:38.060 --> 00:51:40.300
Yeah, actually that's a good point. Now it's just honest, right?

00:51:40.300 --> 00:51:44.940
Yeah. It's like that television paid for by advertisement, by selling all of your data.

00:51:44.940 --> 00:51:45.980
At least they're honest.

00:51:45.980 --> 00:51:47.940
We will spy on you and give you a cheap telly.

00:51:47.940 --> 00:51:49.180
OK.

00:51:49.180 --> 00:51:52.540
Actually, we didn't talk about that on the show, but

00:51:52.540 --> 00:51:57.580
if anybody hasn't heard about it, there's a company giving away a free TV that has

00:51:57.580 --> 00:52:01.100
a secondary display below it that will show you ads.

00:52:01.100 --> 00:52:06.260
And they are absolutely 100 percent collecting your data and selling it.

00:52:06.260 --> 00:52:08.060
And I love it.

00:52:08.060 --> 00:52:09.700
I think it's fantastic.

00:52:09.700 --> 00:52:11.740
Because if nothing else, it's gonna highlight the fact

00:52:11.740 --> 00:52:14.340
that that's what the other TVs are doing too,

00:52:14.340 --> 00:52:15.700
but they're just not telling you about it

00:52:15.700 --> 00:52:16.580
and they're making you pay.

00:52:16.580 --> 00:52:17.420
You pay less.

00:52:17.420 --> 00:52:20.180
I mean, I enjoy sticking it to the man

00:52:20.180 --> 00:52:23.320
by buying a really expensive, or really cheap, I should say,

00:52:23.320 --> 00:52:24.420
really cheap smart TV.

00:52:24.420 --> 00:52:25.260
I've got, what have I got?

00:52:25.260 --> 00:52:27.380
I got a Vizio in my room here.

00:52:27.380 --> 00:52:30.660
And I never, ever, ever tell it the password to my Wi-Fi.

00:52:30.660 --> 00:52:33.500
I don't plug it into the internet, into the ethernet here.

00:52:33.500 --> 00:52:35.580
And I plug in my Apple TV.

00:52:35.580 --> 00:52:38.700
and I just got it for half the cost it cost them to build it

00:52:38.700 --> 00:52:40.540
because I'm not letting them spy on me.

00:52:40.540 --> 00:52:41.860
It just makes me so happy.

00:52:41.860 --> 00:52:44.060
- Vizio have gotten into a lot of trouble for that.

00:52:44.060 --> 00:52:46.100
Vizio are actually some of the worst offenders

00:52:46.100 --> 00:52:48.540
because they are doing the business model of this,

00:52:48.540 --> 00:52:49.420
was it T,

00:52:49.420 --> 00:52:51.620
well they had a, I can't remember,

00:52:51.620 --> 00:52:53.700
the TVO or TELIO or something,

00:52:53.700 --> 00:52:57.220
ah, I was listening to a podcast about it.

00:52:57.220 --> 00:52:59.020
- I don't know which company you're talking about.

00:52:59.020 --> 00:53:00.380
- But the one that's being honest,

00:53:00.380 --> 00:53:01.980
the one that you talked about on Clockwise

00:53:01.980 --> 00:53:04.220
and the one that the Apple context machine

00:53:04.220 --> 00:53:06.220
spent the entire episode talking about today.

00:53:06.220 --> 00:53:10.100
These are being like they're collecting,

00:53:10.100 --> 00:53:13.060
I don't think any more data than Vizio are.

00:53:13.060 --> 00:53:15.220
Now, the second screen is obviously different.

00:53:15.220 --> 00:53:17.900
But other than that, they're collecting about as much.

00:53:17.900 --> 00:53:19.180
Only they're being honest.

00:53:19.180 --> 00:53:22.460
And they're giving you the telly for free, free instead of for cheaper.

00:53:22.460 --> 00:53:24.500
I think I think it's lovely.

00:53:24.500 --> 00:53:28.420
I think it's I think it's from Pluto, the guy who started Pluto TV.

00:53:28.420 --> 00:53:30.820
But I don't see the name of the company.

00:53:30.820 --> 00:53:32.740
The other thing I was thinking about is, you know what?

00:53:32.740 --> 00:53:37.740
Just just knit yourself a little little cover for that lower display and you won't see the ads either.

00:53:37.740 --> 00:53:40.700
Ah, they were talking about that on the context machine.

00:53:40.700 --> 00:53:44.020
But part of the terms of service is that they actually have a sensor in there

00:53:44.020 --> 00:53:45.660
to monitor how many people are watching telly.

00:53:45.660 --> 00:53:48.460
So if you block it off, I would imagine the sensor will know.

00:53:48.460 --> 00:53:51.900
So find the sensor and don't cover the sensor up.

00:53:51.900 --> 00:53:54.020
It's funny you say that, because that's what they were saying.

00:53:54.020 --> 00:53:55.900
You'll find where the sensor is and cut a hole in it.

00:53:55.900 --> 00:53:59.860
And they mentioned that most cheap webcams pick up IR and should show you where the sensors are.

00:54:00.500 --> 00:54:03.740
And my immediate thought was, what about a one way mirror?

00:54:03.740 --> 00:54:07.540
Just stick a one way mirror in front of it.

00:54:07.540 --> 00:54:09.780
Anyway,

00:54:09.780 --> 00:54:13.060
so I don't even know why that came up.

00:54:13.060 --> 00:54:13.940
Yeah.

00:54:13.940 --> 00:54:17.260
Anyway, the next story in the show notes, I have no idea why I popped that in there,

00:54:17.260 --> 00:54:18.780
but it just came into my head.

00:54:18.780 --> 00:54:22.740
We have I have been a bit mean about the Irish Data Protection Commissioners a few

00:54:22.740 --> 00:54:26.820
times because many large American multinationals are

00:54:27.020 --> 00:54:32.860
quartered in Ireland because our tax regime is quite friendly to large multinational corporations

00:54:32.860 --> 00:54:37.660
and our government employs something called light-touch regulation which some people translate

00:54:37.660 --> 00:54:42.460
as no regulation and I have been pretty cranky that the Irish Data Protection Commissioner

00:54:42.460 --> 00:54:55.060
says hmmm. Anyway, I take it back. Meta have been fined a record 1.2 billion with a B euro

00:54:55.060 --> 00:55:03.220
for breaching the GDPR because in 2020 the European Court of Justice struck down an arrangement

00:55:03.220 --> 00:55:08.820
called Privacy Shield which was allowing for European data to be transferred to America

00:55:08.820 --> 00:55:16.420
ostensibly under GDPR compliance. And the court was asked to rule whether or not Privacy Shield

00:55:16.420 --> 00:55:20.980
really was compliant with GDPR and the court ruled in 2020 that it was not.

00:55:21.780 --> 00:55:27.220
Metta's response was to go la la la la la la la la la and to just keep doing it.

00:55:27.220 --> 00:55:31.220
The Irish data commissioners have now...

00:55:31.220 --> 00:55:32.100
How's that working out for them?

00:55:32.100 --> 00:55:36.660
Well, 1.2 billion badly and they have five months to comply.

00:55:36.660 --> 00:55:42.180
They are expected to appeal or rather they have said explicitly they plan to appeal.

00:55:42.180 --> 00:55:47.140
So yeah, they are going to have to change something.

00:55:47.140 --> 00:55:48.740
You're okay with this?

00:55:49.620 --> 00:55:50.660
Yes, absolutely.

00:55:50.660 --> 00:55:51.620
They should be.

00:55:51.620 --> 00:55:53.460
They should be obeying the law.

00:55:53.460 --> 00:55:54.980
Like

00:55:54.980 --> 00:55:57.660
one of the biggest differences, like

00:55:57.660 --> 00:56:01.740
people say, well, the cloud is everywhere, but that's not really true because cloud

00:56:01.740 --> 00:56:05.060
providers can choose how to manage their clouds.

00:56:05.060 --> 00:56:08.260
So in terms of the end user experience,

00:56:08.260 --> 00:56:11.500
there's not really much difference in a OneDrive or a Google Drive.

00:56:11.500 --> 00:56:13.980
They don't feel any different to you as a user.

00:56:13.980 --> 00:56:17.940
But OneDrives are geo.

00:56:18.140 --> 00:56:22.540
One drives stay within geographic areas for their cloud.

00:56:22.540 --> 00:56:25.220
So my one drive doesn't leave the EU.

00:56:25.220 --> 00:56:30.700
It's spread across lots of different data centers across Amsterdam and Dublin.

00:56:30.700 --> 00:56:33.740
To be fair, that's only because Microsoft was sued into doing it.

00:56:33.740 --> 00:56:36.100
Right. Sure, sure.

00:56:36.100 --> 00:56:38.180
I mean, but I'm just in some way it didn't used to be.

00:56:38.180 --> 00:56:39.540
Yeah. But yeah. Right.

00:56:39.540 --> 00:56:40.740
Well, actually, no, no, actually, no.

00:56:40.740 --> 00:56:42.220
Sorry, Microsoft weren't forced into it.

00:56:42.220 --> 00:56:44.740
Microsoft did it as a way of getting business.

00:56:45.060 --> 00:56:50.900
So Microsoft offered it as a feature, which got them a lot of business in Europe because

00:56:50.900 --> 00:56:56.340
they were able to say, well, we can promise you that your data stays under GDPR. Therefore,

00:56:56.340 --> 00:57:00.740
your legal department doesn't have to worry about it. So they were doing it as a business proposition.

00:57:00.740 --> 00:57:07.220
Whereas Google are explicitly saying this is impossible. The cloud is the cloud. And I'm going,

00:57:07.220 --> 00:57:12.180
no, that's not true. And Facebook are trying to do the same thing. It's like, oh, it's just,

00:57:12.180 --> 00:57:15.980
It's just the cloud is the cloud and they're going to have to stop doing that.

00:57:15.980 --> 00:57:20.380
They're going to have to start keeping European data in Europe or

00:57:20.380 --> 00:57:22.900
respecting everyone's privacy everywhere.

00:57:22.900 --> 00:57:24.740
Either is good by me.

00:57:24.740 --> 00:57:26.860
Yeah, yeah, I would think so.

00:57:26.860 --> 00:57:31.060
I remember the Microsoft story differently.

00:57:31.060 --> 00:57:34.380
Is it possible you're remembering a different Microsoft story where the US

00:57:34.380 --> 00:57:37.700
government tried to sue Microsoft to force them to give European data to the

00:57:37.700 --> 00:57:41.380
American government and Microsoft stood up to the US government?

00:57:41.580 --> 00:57:43.580
There's that.

00:57:43.580 --> 00:57:45.580
[laughs]

00:57:45.580 --> 00:57:47.580
Yeah.

00:57:47.580 --> 00:57:49.580
Let's see.

00:57:49.580 --> 00:57:52.580
Today we are--this is from Microsoft in 2021.

00:57:52.580 --> 00:57:54.580
Today we are announcing a new pledge for the European Union.

00:57:54.580 --> 00:57:57.580
If you're a commercial or public sector customer--

00:57:57.580 --> 00:57:59.580
that's not a home customer--

00:57:59.580 --> 00:58:02.580
we will go beyond our existing data storage commitments

00:58:02.580 --> 00:58:05.580
and enable you to process and store all of your data in the EU.

00:58:05.580 --> 00:58:09.580
They did not promise that to BART the regular human.

00:58:09.580 --> 00:58:14.640
That's fair. When I was in the room being promised that, I did not have that particular

00:58:14.640 --> 00:58:15.640
hat on. That is true.

00:58:15.640 --> 00:58:16.640
It was well before 2021.

00:58:16.640 --> 00:58:20.440
In other words, we will not need to move your data outside the EU.

00:58:20.440 --> 00:58:26.700
Yeah. Now, even right. So you use a cloud service to host podfee.com and you chose which

00:58:26.700 --> 00:58:30.240
data centers that went into. So even you...

00:58:30.240 --> 00:58:35.700
By default did, I have no idea. They could be in Berlin. I have no idea where they are.

00:58:35.700 --> 00:58:38.760
All I know is they don't answer the phone on the weekends.

00:58:38.760 --> 00:58:41.000
(laughing)

00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:44.000
- Oh, okay, I guess my point is that even stuff

00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:46.000
like Linode and stuff allow you,

00:58:46.000 --> 00:58:48.360
when you're spinning up a WeVM to run your website,

00:58:48.360 --> 00:58:50.180
allow you to choose where the data goes.

00:58:50.180 --> 00:58:51.300
- Oh, oh, oh, sorry.

00:58:51.300 --> 00:58:54.100
I was talking about Libsyn for the files,

00:58:54.100 --> 00:58:54.940
but yeah, you're right.

00:58:54.940 --> 00:58:57.620
But yeah, I don't, no, I did pick the United States.

00:58:57.620 --> 00:59:00.000
You're right, for pyfeet.com.

00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:01.400
- Yeah, and you picked one close to you

00:59:01.400 --> 00:59:03.360
for your stuff to be speedy for you.

00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:06.240
But if you were to decide to use their CDN service,

00:59:06.240 --> 00:59:08.400
then you could choose to have it also in Europe

00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:12.600
And they're going to have to either, like I say, respect everyone's privacy everywhere.

00:59:12.600 --> 00:59:15.680
There's a lot of companies have simply said, we're just going to apply the GDPR.

00:59:15.680 --> 00:59:18.960
Not only to Europeans, we're just going to apply the GDPR.

00:59:18.960 --> 00:59:22.840
And they're going to have to either, like I said, respect everyone's privacy everywhere.

00:59:22.840 --> 00:59:26.120
And so they're going to have to either, like I said, respect everyone's privacy

00:59:26.120 --> 00:59:28.880
everywhere, and they're going to have to either, like I said, respect everyone's

00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:31.600
privacy everywhere, and they're going to have to either, like I said, respect everyone's

00:59:31.600 --> 00:59:34.320
privacy everywhere, and they're going to have to either, like I said, respect everyone's

00:59:34.320 --> 00:59:36.920
privacy everywhere, and they're going to have to either, like I said, respect everyone's

00:59:36.920 --> 00:59:38.840
Europeans, we're just going to apply the GDPR.

00:59:38.840 --> 00:59:41.840
And there's other companies that have responded and said, we're going to treat

00:59:41.840 --> 00:59:44.920
you guys differently to you guys, which is also legal.

00:59:44.920 --> 00:59:47.360
So we're going to have to do one of those two.

00:59:47.360 --> 00:59:49.120
Well, but you've got to realise, Bert,

00:59:49.120 --> 00:59:53.680
that Facebook has that problem of not being able to track us in the app and stuff

00:59:53.680 --> 00:59:56.840
because of stupid Apple not letting them do it.

00:59:56.840 --> 00:59:58.840
I mean, they're in big trouble.

00:59:58.840 --> 01:00:01.600
Yeah. And it's interesting how not allowing

01:00:01.600 --> 01:00:05.000
to track without consent is being represented as not being allowed to track.

01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:06.200
They have every right to track.

01:00:06.200 --> 01:00:09.160
They just have to tell us.

01:00:09.160 --> 01:00:09.760
Yeah, right?

01:00:09.760 --> 01:00:11.520
I mean, Apple's change was not to block--

01:00:11.520 --> 01:00:12.520
Well, no, not tell us.

01:00:12.520 --> 01:00:13.360
They have to ask.

01:00:13.360 --> 01:00:15.680
OK, yes, that is a very valid correction.

01:00:15.680 --> 01:00:16.180
I apologize.

01:00:16.180 --> 01:00:18.280
They actively ask for permission.

01:00:18.280 --> 01:00:20.680
Yeah, they are not being prevented from tracking.

01:00:20.680 --> 01:00:23.560
They are prevented from tracking secretly.

01:00:23.560 --> 01:00:25.000
Yes, yes.

01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:29.520
And if your business model is built on lying by omission--

01:00:29.520 --> 01:00:32.480
yeah, I'm-- where's the world's smallest violin?

01:00:32.480 --> 01:00:34.080
Let me go dig that up there.

01:00:34.080 --> 01:00:38.880
Anyway, in other news that is, I think, significant.

01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:44.760
The US Supreme Court had a chance to overturn a very important piece

01:00:44.760 --> 01:00:49.160
of legislation governing the online experience of, frankly, planet Earth.

01:00:49.160 --> 01:00:52.400
Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act,

01:00:52.400 --> 01:00:55.440
which is also called the Safe Harbor Provision.

01:00:55.440 --> 01:00:58.680
It allows a website to.

01:00:59.680 --> 01:01:05.240
be a service provider that moderates without having to be held liable for

01:01:05.240 --> 01:01:08.600
every single thing said on their platform, even though they moderate.

01:01:08.600 --> 01:01:14.320
It is a widely understood law and it's one of those bizarre things where extremists

01:01:14.320 --> 01:01:18.480
on all sides agree it's terrible, but they disagree by 180 degrees on why it's

01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:21.840
terrible and neither of them really understand what it actually means.

01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:25.280
So the first thing I would say is know a little more.

01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:28.160
The amazing podcast by a friend of the show

01:01:28.360 --> 01:01:30.640
whose name was just aced at Tech.

01:01:30.640 --> 01:01:31.840
Tom Merritt, thank you.

01:01:31.840 --> 01:01:34.080
It's funny how names just go away.

01:01:34.080 --> 01:01:36.080
I don't know.

01:01:36.080 --> 01:01:41.000
I'm just happy to see it happen to you, because it happens to me all the time.

01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:45.480
So Tom had already done Section 230, but he updated it after the Supreme Court

01:01:45.480 --> 01:01:49.640
ruling, so there's now like a new and improved plus plus version.

01:01:49.640 --> 01:01:53.160
You know, it's 90 percent the same, but it does reference a decision and stuff.

01:01:53.160 --> 01:01:54.760
And so it helps you put it into context.

01:01:54.760 --> 01:01:56.560
So that's linked in the show notes.

01:01:56.560 --> 01:02:02.680
The things Tom has chosen to explain are often so complicated that you need to listen to

01:02:02.680 --> 01:02:03.680
them more than once.

01:02:03.680 --> 01:02:04.680
Yeah.

01:02:04.680 --> 01:02:09.840
I could give a vague hand-waving about what section 230 was about because I listened to

01:02:09.840 --> 01:02:11.400
the original episode.

01:02:11.400 --> 01:02:15.000
I will absolutely go back and listen to this one again so that I have a faint chance of

01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:18.120
being able to reproduce some of the explanation.

01:02:18.120 --> 01:02:24.280
But I've listened to the one on explaining mini-LED about 28 times, and I'm about a quarter

01:02:24.280 --> 01:02:27.640
of the way able to reproduce what he taught me.

01:02:27.640 --> 01:02:29.600
So it's a really good show.

01:02:29.600 --> 01:02:31.720
- I have them filed away where if I need to remember

01:02:31.720 --> 01:02:34.660
why Wi-Fi 6 is important, I know Tom explained it to me

01:02:34.660 --> 01:02:35.660
and I will go listen.

01:02:35.660 --> 01:02:39.480
So I sort of have this mental file of things Tom has told me

01:02:39.480 --> 01:02:41.200
that I will go dig up again when I need to know.

01:02:41.200 --> 01:02:43.800
But I always re-listen when he updates.

01:02:43.800 --> 01:02:44.680
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:44.680 --> 01:02:49.080
Dave Hamilton has a really good explainer on Wi-Fi 6 too.

01:02:49.080 --> 01:02:50.840
That's a really good one.

01:02:50.840 --> 01:02:51.680
- I might get you to pop that in the show.

01:02:51.680 --> 01:02:52.520
- Or 6E.

01:02:53.400 --> 01:02:55.160
Oh, even better. Do you remember where that was?

01:02:55.160 --> 01:02:56.280
Yeah.

01:02:56.280 --> 01:02:57.880
Actually, you guys did a really good

01:02:57.880 --> 01:03:01.040
discussion on the Nosyllicast as a chit chat across the pond.

01:03:01.040 --> 01:03:02.560
Or chit chat. Light.

01:03:02.560 --> 01:03:04.760
That's where I'm thinking it was. Yeah.

01:03:04.760 --> 01:03:07.280
And then light with the world's heaviest air quotes.

01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:09.520
But it was officially in the light feed.

01:03:09.520 --> 01:03:14.520
It was excellent. Light is light is French for not programming by stealth.

01:03:14.520 --> 01:03:15.800
Kind of is really, isn't it?

01:03:15.800 --> 01:03:17.760
There was no terminal

01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:20.400
or F and stuff, but no terminal.

01:03:20.400 --> 01:03:23.240
Yeah. Anyway, so the Supreme Court had the

01:03:23.240 --> 01:03:27.560
opportunity to really change things and they basically chose to say "we have no opinion,

01:03:27.560 --> 01:03:32.780
everything stays the same". So they basically punted. There was a lot more legal gymnastics

01:03:32.780 --> 01:03:40.400
but they basically chose to let the status quo stand. So it is as it was.

01:03:40.400 --> 01:03:49.360
Montana took the lead in banning TikTok. And on cue the lawsuit started to fly. The law

01:03:49.360 --> 01:03:53.640
The law is due to go into effect on the 1st of January 2024.

01:03:53.640 --> 01:03:56.600
It will be in court long before then,

01:03:56.600 --> 01:03:59.800
whether it ever happens, good or so he knows, but stay tuned.

01:03:59.800 --> 01:04:01.200
The

01:04:01.200 --> 01:04:03.960
grab your popcorn, it's on.

01:04:03.960 --> 01:04:06.200
It's really the main point of saying that.

01:04:06.200 --> 01:04:13.920
Do you understand how a piece of software can be blocked in a state?

01:04:13.920 --> 01:04:15.520
Can't really.

01:04:15.520 --> 01:04:16.720
Right.

01:04:16.720 --> 01:04:18.920
And you're saying that, though,

01:04:19.120 --> 01:04:20.240
I'll talk about they banned it.

01:04:20.240 --> 01:04:22.720
I'm going, yeah, I could ban it.

01:04:22.720 --> 01:04:24.480
Well, no, I could ban it in my house.

01:04:24.480 --> 01:04:25.600
I could do that on my router.

01:04:25.600 --> 01:04:28.360
But, you know, how do you ban it in a state?

01:04:28.360 --> 01:04:30.920
It's especially when you have something

01:04:30.920 --> 01:04:35.080
called interstate commerce, which is constitutionally protected as a federal

01:04:35.080 --> 01:04:38.920
remit, I don't think this stands up.

01:04:38.920 --> 01:04:42.400
The federal government hypothetically could.

01:04:42.400 --> 01:04:45.280
But I I am not a lawyer,

01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:48.960
but my understanding of the American legal system is that this doesn't hold any

01:04:48.960 --> 01:04:52.520
water. So I would be very curious to see what happens here,

01:04:52.520 --> 01:04:55.240
but we shall see.

01:04:55.240 --> 01:04:58.800
Well, I'm, I'm not even talking about that. I'm talking about,

01:04:58.800 --> 01:05:00.160
how do you technically do it?

01:05:00.160 --> 01:05:04.200
App stores. The, the app stores are American corporations.

01:05:04.200 --> 01:05:06.080
So you make the apps.

01:05:06.080 --> 01:05:10.480
So you require the app stores to block it or you do not allow the app stores to

01:05:10.480 --> 01:05:11.760
make any money in your state.

01:05:11.760 --> 01:05:17.920
How do you block an app store from a state? I just, I just don't.

01:05:17.920 --> 01:05:18.600
there already are.

01:05:18.600 --> 01:05:21.440
So you already have differences in tax and stuff from state to state, right?

01:05:21.440 --> 01:05:24.800
So if, if a company is selling something to the residents of California,

01:05:24.800 --> 01:05:27.920
California do actually get to have some say in that sale, right?

01:05:27.920 --> 01:05:30.000
You give Californian sales tax.

01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:32.280
So online stores.

01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:34.480
You don't pay sales tax on apps when we buy them.

01:05:34.480 --> 01:05:37.440
You, I mean, it might be buried somewhere inside.

01:05:37.440 --> 01:05:38.360
Well, okay.

01:05:38.360 --> 01:05:41.080
Maybe there, maybe that's because there isn't sales tax on apps, but there is no

01:05:41.080 --> 01:05:43.520
reason California couldn't impose a sales tax on apps.

01:05:45.120 --> 01:05:48.200
So if you're selling something to Californians.

01:05:48.200 --> 01:05:49.960
How do they know I'm in California?

01:05:49.960 --> 01:05:51.080
Your address.

01:05:51.080 --> 01:05:53.880
So you would have to have your registered address for the credit card.

01:05:53.880 --> 01:05:57.160
So the workaround would simply be to have an out of state credit card.

01:05:57.160 --> 01:05:59.720
I mean, this thing will be leaky at a technical level.

01:05:59.720 --> 01:06:02.680
This thing will be leaky as a sieve, right?

01:06:02.680 --> 01:06:07.840
Well, and plus, TikTok is a website, TikTok.com.

01:06:07.840 --> 01:06:08.760
Yeah.

01:06:08.760 --> 01:06:14.120
So you could then hypothetically start to ask the ISPs who are who are doing business

01:06:14.320 --> 01:06:19.080
estate to block the DNS entries for it, which again will be bypassed by a VPN.

01:06:19.080 --> 01:06:20.080
Based on the IP address.

01:06:20.080 --> 01:06:21.080
Right.

01:06:21.080 --> 01:06:22.080
Yeah.

01:06:22.080 --> 01:06:23.080
Oh yeah.

01:06:23.080 --> 01:06:24.080
Leaky is another sieve.

01:06:24.080 --> 01:06:25.080
Okay.

01:06:25.080 --> 01:06:26.080
Yeah.

01:06:26.080 --> 01:06:31.440
I mean, it's legally shaky, technologically leaky.

01:06:31.440 --> 01:06:32.440
It's grandstanding.

01:06:32.440 --> 01:06:33.440
Yeah.

01:06:33.440 --> 01:06:34.440
Yeah.

01:06:34.440 --> 01:06:35.640
But stay tuned.

01:06:35.640 --> 01:06:38.520
The popcorn, you know, grab your popcorn because this is going to be fun.

01:06:38.520 --> 01:06:43.480
I have a feeling my place of joy is going to be shut down by the country fairly soon.

01:06:43.480 --> 01:06:46.320
So anyway, we shall see.

01:06:46.320 --> 01:06:47.160
We shall see.

01:06:47.160 --> 01:06:49.240
Don't count your chickens,

01:06:49.240 --> 01:06:52.920
especially in this case, since the chickens, you don't want them to go away.

01:06:52.920 --> 01:06:56.840
And then the last story, I think it's important to note

01:06:56.840 --> 01:07:03.040
that the Surgeon General of the United States, Dr. Vivek Murthy,

01:07:03.040 --> 01:07:07.520
has released an advisory warning parents that there are negative effects

01:07:07.520 --> 01:07:10.500
on children's mental health from social media.

01:07:10.500 --> 01:07:13.340
And I think it's important that we start to talk about this.

01:07:13.360 --> 01:07:16.060
that, you know, kids.

01:07:16.060 --> 01:07:18.300
It's an important thing for parents to be aware of.

01:07:18.300 --> 01:07:21.760
So I'm going to try to pull this up as quickly as I can,

01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:25.600
but I was listening to Alan Alda's fantastic podcast,

01:07:25.600 --> 01:07:29.200
which is, of course, going to escape my mind right now.

01:07:29.200 --> 01:07:31.100
I was going to say he has two.

01:07:31.100 --> 01:07:32.960
Right. But what's the main one called?

01:07:32.960 --> 01:07:35.240
All of a sudden it's there it is clear and vivid.

01:07:35.240 --> 01:07:38.800
He had a woman named let's see.

01:07:38.800 --> 01:07:41.860
Oh, where is it?

01:07:42.440 --> 01:07:45.560
Okay, I'm gonna keep looking for it while I chat.

01:07:45.560 --> 01:07:50.560
She's a researcher who decided to dig deeper

01:07:50.560 --> 01:07:53.320
into whether there's any correlation

01:07:53.320 --> 01:07:57.640
with social media when these things were introduced,

01:07:57.640 --> 01:08:01.400
like Instagram and TikTok and these other things,

01:08:01.400 --> 01:08:05.320
to specific things that are indicators

01:08:05.320 --> 01:08:07.420
of mental health problems in people.

01:08:07.420 --> 01:08:11.560
So what she did was she pulled the data from hospitals

01:08:11.560 --> 01:08:16.560
of overdoses and suicide attempts

01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:20.100
and hospitalized for fear of self-harm.

01:08:20.100 --> 01:08:21.560
And she did it regionally,

01:08:21.560 --> 01:08:23.120
so she did it in different countries.

01:08:23.120 --> 01:08:25.000
She did it across, she and the team

01:08:25.000 --> 01:08:26.760
did it across different countries.

01:08:26.760 --> 01:08:31.760
And at best, you can find an extremely weak correlation

01:08:31.760 --> 01:08:36.360
to the introduction of these social media platforms.

01:08:36.360 --> 01:08:39.320
And she said, "I'm not saying it's not there,

01:08:39.320 --> 01:08:43.360
But I don't think that we have proof that it is there at this point.

01:08:43.360 --> 01:08:46.280
So that was really interesting to me.

01:08:46.280 --> 01:08:49.600
I mean, it's one of those things that when you say it out loud, it smells true.

01:08:49.600 --> 01:08:52.640
But is that really the cause?

01:08:52.640 --> 01:08:57.520
I'm not sure.

01:08:57.520 --> 01:09:00.640
So kids have always been evil to each other,

01:09:00.640 --> 01:09:03.720
and they now you do it through this mechanism.

01:09:03.720 --> 01:09:07.200
So I think as a parent, so kids have always bullied each other

01:09:07.200 --> 01:09:09.640
and they just do it through whatever the mechanism is available.

01:09:09.640 --> 01:09:13.840
And now it means that you need to be aware of what's going on on social media

01:09:13.840 --> 01:09:16.440
so that you know if your kid is being targeted through that vector.

01:09:16.440 --> 01:09:17.840
But it doesn't mean that there's more bullying.

01:09:17.840 --> 01:09:20.000
It just means it's different would be my take.

01:09:20.000 --> 01:09:24.400
But I like data, right?

01:09:24.400 --> 01:09:26.760
I like I like knowing whether

01:09:26.760 --> 01:09:30.880
the problem with this kind of thing is you go after trying to solve it

01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:34.960
when you don't have the data to show whether you have solved it.

01:09:35.320 --> 01:09:38.360
So if you don't have something you can actually accurately measure,

01:09:38.360 --> 01:09:43.000
then you don't have a way to tell if you fix it.

01:09:43.000 --> 01:09:47.600
Oh, I won't disagree with that at all.

01:09:47.600 --> 01:09:51.680
I will just give a point that is adjacent to not

01:09:51.680 --> 01:09:55.960
not in any way meant as as an argument against, but just I think.

01:09:55.960 --> 01:10:00.720
It is one of the ways in which your children

01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:02.880
are interacted with is through their social media.

01:10:02.880 --> 01:10:06.400
So as a parent, you do need to keep an eye that there isn't something going on there.

01:10:06.400 --> 01:10:09.720
It's not because social media is the problem,

01:10:09.720 --> 01:10:13.840
but social media is a thing in their lives and like everything else in their

01:10:13.840 --> 01:10:16.520
lives, whether they're in, you know, if they're in a sports team or something,

01:10:16.520 --> 01:10:19.480
you need to be sure that there isn't something dodgy going on in the sports team.

01:10:19.480 --> 01:10:21.680
It is a part of their life that you need

01:10:21.680 --> 01:10:25.120
to remember exists would be my advice for.

01:10:25.120 --> 01:10:26.240
Yeah. Oh, yeah.

01:10:26.240 --> 01:10:28.920
Like anyone ever asked me, but you know what I mean.

01:10:29.120 --> 01:10:33.320
But I mean, when you're, this can end up being regulation,

01:10:33.320 --> 01:10:37.200
you know, it can be things that go down the regulation path.

01:10:37.200 --> 01:10:41.940
And I think being able to know what you've actually,

01:10:41.940 --> 01:10:43.960
what is actually happening based on data,

01:10:43.960 --> 01:10:47.200
then you can go from there to whether you can find

01:10:47.200 --> 01:10:49.120
the right solution, can you measure whether you have

01:10:49.120 --> 01:10:50.400
solved the problem?

01:10:50.400 --> 01:10:53.020
So that's kind of, but you know, I am not finding this.

01:10:53.020 --> 01:10:54.600
I know I didn't dream it, but I'm wondering whether

01:10:54.600 --> 01:10:57.080
it might not have been out on all the shows.

01:10:57.080 --> 01:10:58.440
- If it wasn't out on all the show,

01:10:58.440 --> 01:11:03.000
It's a show that we both have in our podcatchers because it rang many bells.

01:11:03.000 --> 01:11:04.000
Yeah.

01:11:04.000 --> 01:11:08.600
OK, so now all we need to do is do a correlation between our two.

01:11:08.600 --> 01:11:11.720
I'll send you mine because yours is longer.

01:11:11.720 --> 01:11:14.680
I was going to say mine is very long,

01:11:14.680 --> 01:11:18.800
which thankfully sets us up for two.

01:11:18.800 --> 01:11:20.080
Actually, no, sorry, I have interesting

01:11:20.080 --> 01:11:21.960
insights first before I go to palate cleansing.

01:11:21.960 --> 01:11:23.520
So

01:11:23.520 --> 01:11:26.720
you've probably heard me pirating on about

01:11:26.720 --> 01:11:28.520
this obsession I have with following the money.

01:11:28.520 --> 01:11:31.400
If you want to understand what the bad guys are up to, follow the money.

01:11:31.400 --> 01:11:35.080
And one of my favourite cybersecurity podcasts

01:11:35.080 --> 01:11:37.720
dedicated an entire episode to that concept.

01:11:37.720 --> 01:11:42.840
The Malicious Life podcast has an episode called The Economics of Cybersecurity,

01:11:42.840 --> 01:11:47.080
and they have experts on explaining how the money works

01:11:47.080 --> 01:11:49.800
in cybersecurity today in 2023.

01:11:49.800 --> 01:11:51.800
So I thought it was a fascinating episode.

01:11:51.800 --> 01:11:53.920
So I just wanted to thank people for that.

01:11:53.920 --> 01:11:58.520
So the next story I have then is, it's an angle of this whole chat GPT thing

01:11:58.520 --> 01:12:03.760
that I was oblivious to. I thought I was fairly in the know about this stuff,

01:12:03.760 --> 01:12:07.880
but I was missing a whole aspect of how these things work.

01:12:07.880 --> 01:12:13.920
So before chat GPT gets released to the public, they say that they train the AI,

01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:19.000
they sort of correct the AI with some human intervention.

01:12:19.000 --> 01:12:21.120
That's humans, right?

01:12:21.320 --> 01:12:27.520
And it turns out that those humans are working for such spectacularly low pay

01:12:27.520 --> 01:12:30.400
that you could make the argument that slave labor and they're sitting in Africa

01:12:30.400 --> 01:12:33.440
in a call center being literally traumatized.

01:12:33.440 --> 01:12:36.400
I had no idea this was a thing.

01:12:36.400 --> 01:12:42.280
So the episode is called He Helped Train Chat GPT It Was Traumatizing

01:12:42.280 --> 01:12:44.280
with a chap called Richard Mathenge.

01:12:44.280 --> 01:12:45.600
And

01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:48.440
it's the interview is

01:12:48.640 --> 01:12:51.680
fascinating in the bad kind of way, I guess.

01:12:51.680 --> 01:12:53.520
I learned a lot. I was oblivious.

01:12:53.520 --> 01:12:57.480
I was I didn't realize any of this.

01:12:57.480 --> 01:12:59.880
So I felt if I don't know this, I'm

01:12:59.880 --> 01:13:01.000
guessing lots of people don't.

01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:02.760
So I thought it was worth sharing.

01:13:02.760 --> 01:13:04.680
Yeah. Hey, I found it.

01:13:04.680 --> 01:13:08.760
It was Ezra Klein interviewing Gene Twenge.

01:13:08.760 --> 01:13:11.520
And I found the I found the transcript

01:13:11.520 --> 01:13:13.680
of the article and from there you can listen to it.

01:13:13.680 --> 01:13:15.880
Excellent. I'm a huge fan of Ezra Klein.

01:13:16.080 --> 01:13:19.080
Definitely. I think you turned me on to that show.

01:13:19.080 --> 01:13:21.840
That's possible, actually, because Ezra is quite dorky.

01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:23.120
Like

01:13:23.120 --> 01:13:25.080
civics dork is what Ezra is.

01:13:25.080 --> 01:13:28.520
I love him for it, but it's not light.

01:13:28.520 --> 01:13:29.200
I love it.

01:13:29.200 --> 01:13:31.280
But, you know, may not be everyone's taste.

01:13:31.280 --> 01:13:33.240
And then I do actually have a palate

01:13:33.240 --> 01:13:37.360
cleanser, which is unusually cybersecurity related.

01:13:37.360 --> 01:13:41.760
But it's so well, no, because we like to do it as something, you know, completely

01:13:41.960 --> 01:13:44.600
different, right? But this,

01:13:44.600 --> 01:13:51.000
it's rare that you see a piece of online journalism that makes you go, wow,

01:13:51.000 --> 01:13:53.400
that's genuinely creative.

01:13:53.400 --> 01:13:59.800
So it's an article by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's online website.

01:13:59.800 --> 01:14:06.040
And it's about how sort of the point of the article is to illustrate to people how

01:14:06.040 --> 01:14:11.560
lots of little data breaches add up to a big problem for you because the bad guys

01:14:11.760 --> 01:14:14.920
effectively fill in a jigsaw of your identity.

01:14:14.920 --> 01:14:19.760
But to make the point, they have partnered with Troy Hunt,

01:14:19.760 --> 01:14:23.080
and it's powered by the Have I Been Pwned database.

01:14:23.080 --> 01:14:25.200
And so you enter your email address,

01:14:25.200 --> 01:14:27.240
it looks you up in Have I Been Pwned,

01:14:27.240 --> 01:14:30.800
and then it tells the story saying that for you,

01:14:30.800 --> 01:14:34.160
this process started with this breach on this date,

01:14:34.160 --> 01:14:37.120
when this got leaked.

01:14:37.120 --> 01:14:40.120
For you, things were then quiet for X amount of months

01:14:40.120 --> 01:14:41.800
until this happened, until this happened.

01:14:41.800 --> 01:14:43.640
And there's an animation of the different parts

01:14:43.640 --> 01:14:45.360
of your identity filling in.

01:14:45.360 --> 01:14:47.320
And it's telling you, for you,

01:14:47.320 --> 01:14:50.160
this happened on this date from this breach.

01:14:50.160 --> 01:14:51.760
And it's interspersed with pieces

01:14:51.760 --> 01:14:53.400
that are obviously generic information,

01:14:53.400 --> 01:14:55.320
where there's a cybersecurity expert telling you

01:14:55.320 --> 01:14:57.080
about the concept in general.

01:14:57.080 --> 01:15:00.640
But because it's filled in with your information,

01:15:00.640 --> 01:15:03.560
it's a very compelling way of telling a story.

01:15:03.560 --> 01:15:05.800
It's like a choose your own adventure.

01:15:05.800 --> 01:15:06.880
(laughs)

01:15:06.880 --> 01:15:08.800
In a very clever way.

01:15:08.800 --> 01:15:11.440
Yeah, I have a feeling mine's really long.

01:15:11.440 --> 01:15:16.800
And mine had a sort of a yada yada sort of a point where it said, and then skipping

01:15:16.800 --> 01:15:20.000
forward until 2020, by now you have been.

01:15:20.000 --> 01:15:22.640
And it just gave this like summary of everything that happened for like a

01:15:22.640 --> 01:15:25.560
decade to get me sort of caught up, because I think otherwise my article would

01:15:25.560 --> 01:15:27.680
have been infinite as well.

01:15:27.680 --> 01:15:29.360
Oh, I just did it.

01:15:29.360 --> 01:15:33.160
And I actually knew where the first breach was.

01:15:33.160 --> 01:15:35.840
And I was correct. It was Gawker back in 2010.

01:15:36.040 --> 01:15:40.040
It's a story I always tell about how I changed my password after that breach.

01:15:40.040 --> 01:15:44.600
I changed it everywhere except Skype and forgot that I had Skype set up to auto load money

01:15:44.600 --> 01:15:47.080
from my PayPal account.

01:15:47.080 --> 01:15:50.680
I did end up getting all the money back from PayPal, by the way, after somebody used it

01:15:50.680 --> 01:15:54.280
to make long distance phone calls to India, but I knew it was Gawker and I was right.

01:15:54.280 --> 01:15:55.280
Yeah.

01:15:55.280 --> 01:15:57.720
Well, not yay, but I just don't know how many more there have been.

01:15:57.720 --> 01:16:00.520
Cause at that point I was like, all right, well I'm done.

01:16:00.520 --> 01:16:01.520
Yeah.

01:16:01.520 --> 01:16:03.960
It's, it's just, I, I like the cleverness.

01:16:03.960 --> 01:16:06.800
I like how they tell the story and it's the kind of thing where it might actually

01:16:06.800 --> 01:16:11.440
help engage people who would not otherwise read a story on cybersecurity.

01:16:11.440 --> 01:16:13.120
Yeah.

01:16:13.120 --> 01:16:17.680
That's fun. Sorry, you can keep talking, but I'm going to keep watching this fun animation.

01:16:17.680 --> 01:16:20.360
Oh, look, LinkedIn leaked it. That's good.

01:16:20.360 --> 01:16:22.760
I saw a lot of big names as well fly by.

01:16:22.760 --> 01:16:24.400
It's like, oh, I remember talking to Alison about that.

01:16:24.400 --> 01:16:25.840
And I remember talking to Alison about that.

01:16:25.840 --> 01:16:27.240
And I, you know, there we go.

01:16:27.240 --> 01:16:29.520
Oh, E-Fight. E-Fight did a lot of them.

01:16:29.520 --> 01:16:30.960
That's great.

01:16:31.960 --> 01:16:34.960
Anyway, so that's all I got for this week.

01:16:34.960 --> 01:16:37.720
But despite short show notes, we've had a good old conversation.

01:16:37.720 --> 01:16:39.560
So I guess that's good.

01:16:39.560 --> 01:16:43.280
But of course, folks, always, always remember, stay patched.

01:16:43.280 --> 01:16:45.320
So you stay secure.

01:16:45.320 --> 01:16:47.720
Well, that's going to wind us up for this week.

01:16:47.720 --> 01:16:51.960
Did you know that you can email me at Alison at Podfeet dot com anytime you like?

01:16:51.960 --> 01:16:54.720
If you have a question or suggestion, just send it on over.

01:16:54.720 --> 01:16:58.360
You can follow me on Mastodon at Podfeet at Chaos dot social.

01:16:58.360 --> 01:17:01.040
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01:17:01.240 --> 01:17:05.880
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01:17:05.880 --> 01:17:10.000
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01:17:10.000 --> 01:17:16.480
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01:17:16.480 --> 01:17:20.160
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01:17:20.160 --> 01:17:26.160
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01:17:26.160 --> 01:17:29.000
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01:17:29.000 --> 01:17:31.000
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